Pioneer Elite DVD

Before I started audio, I was an electronic geekazoid going back 30 years.

These two hobbies complement each other well. I understand electronics,

learned audio then I learned over time about human perception of audio.

This is a hobby, not a career path like others choose.

Earl Geddes is an audio guru as he makes a living doing this.

http://www.gedlee.com/

From time to time I follow some of his debates and he also believes that audio electroncs has come along way, much like I do. One doesn't need to spend

big bucks on expensive sources to get great sound. He uses a $200 or less

source to audition his high end uber speakers.

I bought a 'jack of all formats' DVD player for $126 shipped. I see no need to

spend $500, $1000, $5000 on an expensive player because humans don't

have the ability to hear any improvment, if any, that high end sources offer.

Some things that you measure or see on electronics instruments {scopes}

are just not audible, the human ear doesn't have the resolution to hear it,

akin to claiming your ***** eye can see the edge of the universe.

Another example is the Behringer digital crossover because I've been doing auditions with it recently. For the past year on the DIY electronics forum {DIYA},

the geeks think they hear bad stuff from this device unless they operate it under

a certain condition. Many are doing mods, gutting the unit to improve it. They all

hear improvements but very few do a blind test. Of those that do a decent blind

test, they can't tell a difference. Only the voodoo folks hear differences because

it's all in their head. I've done so many configurations with this digital crossover to

make it sound bad I can't do it.

It's easy to fall prey to improved SQ when something was changed, but

many times the auditioner is fooled.

If I build something that involves audio and electronics, I too spec the better parts like polyproylene caps in the signal path, better quality op-amps, etc,

but this is just normal human behavior to want the best parts in spite

that I can't prove that it will sound better.

 
Before I started audio, I was an electronic geekazoid going back 30 years.These two hobbies complement each other well. I understand electronics,

learned audio then I learned over time about human perception of audio.

This is a hobby, not a career path like others choose.

Earl Geddes is an audio guru as he makes a living doing this.

http://www.gedlee.com/

From time to time I follow some of his debates and he also believes that audio electroncs has come along way, much like I do. One doesn't need to spend

big bucks on expensive sources to get great sound. He uses a $200 or less

source to audition his high end uber speakers.

I bought a 'jack of all formats' DVD player for $126 shipped. I see no need to

spend $500, $1000, $5000 on an expensive player because humans don't

have the ability to hear any improvment, if any, that high end sources offer.

Some things that you measure or see on electronics instruments {scopes}

are just not audible, the human ear doesn't have the resolution to hear it,

akin to claiming your ***** eye can see the edge of the universe.

Another example is the Behringer digital crossover because I've been doing auditions with it recently. For the past year on the DIY electronics forum {DIYA},

the geeks think they hear bad stuff from this device unless they operate it under

a certain condition. Many are doing mods, gutting the unit to improve it. They all

hear improvements but very few do a blind test. Of those that do a decent blind

test, they can't tell a difference. Only the voodoo folks hear differences because

it's all in their head. I've done so many configurations with this digital crossover to

make it sound bad I can't do it.

It's easy to fall prey to improved SQ when something was changed, but

many times the auditioner is fooled.

If I build something that involves audio and electronics, I too spec the better parts like polyproylene caps in the signal path, better quality op-amps, etc,

but this is just normal human behavior to want the best parts in spite

that I can't prove that it will sound better.
Reliability and build quality is also another concern n00bx.

Also when you OWN both of the other formats, even if you say they're not audibly better... it'd still be QUITE nice to play these discs that you spent money on.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif...

nG

 
If that was true, then why doesn't everyone have a $200 Wal-Mart TV, a $120 Samsung DVD player , a $150 Sony Receiver, and $150 Polk Speakers?

They all have specs above that point of human's abilities RIGHT????

Believe it or not there is a difference between the two. The picture is better and the sound is cleaner. You can believe what you want, but I know what I can see, hear, smell and feel.

 
Reliability and build quality is also another concern n00bx.
Also when you OWN both of the other formats, even if you say they're not audibly better... it'd still be QUITE nice to play these discs that you spent money on.

nG
I went from a $200 Pioneer universal player to a Denon $1500 universal player and I can't even begin to tell you the differences in quality..........both build and sound.

 
Here is a good rule of thumb about good gear and cheap gear. Some of it doesn't sound better, cause well some of it is a waist of money. But SOME gear does sound better than other gear, which is why you demo gear before you buy it. And, if you don't think some gear sounds better than others, than my friend you are in the wrong sport here cause you just don't have the ears for it.

Now, don't feel bad or get angry because most people don't, it's ok, you will find something new to act like you know a lot about. BTW, if you get pissed or moved or upset by reading this, I'm prolly talking to you. And as I always say "I'm not a mushroom, so you can't put me in the dark and feed me bullshit", so don't try...

Don't worry, it will all be ok....

 
Reliability and build quality is also another concern n00bx.

Those are valid concerns. Lets say you spent $2k on a player with great build

quality vs. a $200 run of the mill player. Your $2k player breaks and you

take advantage of the 5 year no hassle warranty given by the manufacturer,

free repair.

On the other hand, I'm hosed. My $200 player broke and then I have to

buy another $200 player to replace it. Cost cost, $400. I'm still $1600 richer

by not buying the better build quality. In theory, I can buy 10 more players

to hit that $2k price //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 
HOLD THE FOCKING PRESSES!!!!!!
Really THY, are you ok? Did you fall and hit your head? Cause I'm not sure you are feeling ok today. Cause, maybe you didn't realize what you said in this thread?

http://www.caraudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155998
You said Let me tell you this player absolutly kicks ***. SACD's sound better, DVD's look and sound better, and even CD's have taken on a much more natural sound.

I said One doesn't need to spend

big bucks on expensive sources to get great sound.

My comment was addressing the sonic issue if you look carefully at my post,

nowhere did I mention video. Video on the other hand is a different story,

the eye if very sensitive to video quality issues, there is no argument there.

 
If that was true, then why doesn't everyone have a $200 Wal-Mart TV, a $120 Samsung DVD player , a $150 Sony Receiver, and $150 Polk Speakers?
They all have specs above that point of human's abilities RIGHT????

Believe it or not there is a difference between the two. The picture is better and the sound is cleaner. You can believe what you want, but I know what I can see, hear, smell and feel.
Again, I'm addressing the audio issue as decribed in my post, specificially

sources. The other issues like TV and speakers are not part of my post,

don't throw that debate in the mix as it doesn't apply. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 
I went from a $200 Pioneer universal player to a Denon $1500 universal player and I can't even begin to tell you the differences in quality..........both build and sound.
You never see this type of claim;

[Hypothetical]

 

"I just spent alot of money on a fancy audio source and it sounds aweful.

You rarely see this happen. Most if not all the time, the same scenario in a scientific test proves inaudibility.

/food for thought

I can build a world class sound system with a $100 audio player, but I'd have

a hard time showing that if I upgraded that player to one costing 100x

more, you'd hear an improvement.

 
Here is a good rule of thumb about good gear and cheap gear. Some of it doesn't sound better, cause well some of it is a waist of money. But SOME gear does sound better than other gear, which is why you demo gear before you buy it. And, if you don't think some gear sounds better than others, than my friend you are in the wrong sport here cause you just don't have the ears for it.
Now, don't feel bad or get angry because most people don't, it's ok, you will find something new to act like you know a lot about. BTW, if you get pissed or moved or upset by reading this, I'm prolly talking to you. And as I always say "I'm not a mushroom, so you can't put me in the dark and feed me bullshit", so don't try...

Don't worry, it will all be ok....
The biggest complaint on sources is the DAC's. Good DACS sound good,

BAD DACS sound bad, Great DACS sound great, that is the audiophile way.

They are correct to some extent, but those stereotypes are very misleading to

the public. The industry has matured, engineering has hit it's peak long ago.

No matter how much better you can make your DAC, it's not audible. Even

mediocre electronics will have great DACs. People fail DAC blind tests all the time

because we are a couple of decades past the 'BAD DAC' stage.

What is left is the analog output stages. If you designed a bad output stage

then you will be able to measure it with test instruments to find frequency

response errors and/or high distortion. Usually, engineers do a fine job

at making sure these errors are very minimal. A simple $1 opamp as the output

stage will the the job 100% of the time but esoteric audio folks like to design

discretes because the high end market demands it to justify the high costs.

[false sense of security syndrome]

There is nothing left to influence SQ other than interfacing issues. If you have

output/input impedance issues, then that can alter performance. I would say

that 99% of the equipment on the market doesn't have this problem because

output stages have low output impedance and inputs have high input impedance,

follow that simple rule and you will not have loading effects that influence performance.

The only thing left is Placebo and the Magic SQ Bunny {summer 2006 movie release}

FYI, when I bought my universal DVD player last year, I chose the particular brand/model #

for the video hack, upscale over analog outputs. I didn't shop for an 'SQ player', rather

a 'PQ player' //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 
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