PG RSD vs. ID10v.3

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Doubt the ID would get louder.
My RSD12D's are taking 900 watts daily each, in a shared-chamber 1.8^3ft box.

They are loud and sound great.

For 80-100 bucks.. definitely be hard to beat.

So, basically you ignored the entire thread up until this point? Doubt all you want, in a sealed application, linear displacement (xmax) reigns supreme. The ID driver has 30% more xmax than the rsd. Unless you buy an rsd with 30% more cone area (ie: a bigger version), the ID will most definitely have the ability to get louder in the right [sealed] installation.
Im glad you are happy with your subs, but if by 'shared-chamber 1.8^3ft box' you mean a sealed box (and at that size I assume you do), then you could be looking to upgrade to some subs with more xmax, or try a ported box. These days 13mm isn't very impressive. Maybe for their price point thats ok, but not against something like the ID sub in question here, an certainly not against the 20-30mm+ xmax subs out there these days.

But to keep things in perspective, a 30% increase in output theoretically would only be about 1 db increase, ignoring all other factors. Not a huge difference, but the advantage certainly goes to the ID driver without question.

 

[MTXman 10+ year member]

So, basically you ignored the entire thread up until this point? Doubt all you want, in a sealed application, linear displacement (xmax) reigns supreme. The ID driver has 30% more xmax than the rsd. Unless you buy an rsd with 30% more cone area (ie: a bigger version), the ID will most definitely have the ability to get louder in the right [sealed] installation.
Im glad you are happy with your subs, but if by 'shared-chamber 1.8^3ft box' you mean a sealed box (and at that size I assume you do), then you could be looking to upgrade to some subs with more xmax, or try a ported box. These days 13mm isn't very impressive. Maybe for their price point thats ok, but not against something like the ID sub in question here, an certainly not against the 20-30mm+ xmax subs out there these days.

But to keep things in perspective, a 30% increase in output theoretically would only be about 1 db increase, ignoring all other factors. Not a huge difference, but the advantage certainly goes to the ID driver without question.

I said shared chamber, because if I said in .9 cub. feet each, someone would ask if it were dual chamber or not so I thought I'd clear things up first.

Despite the xmax, as I know it's low, these things get pretty **** loud and sound great.

Have heard many, many setups and for $175 I would say these would be hard to beat.

Sure, the ID's could be louder, in the right sealed application.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I said shared chamber, because if I said in .9 cub. feet each, someone would ask if it were dual chamber or not so I thought I'd clear things up first.
Despite the xmax, as I know it's low, these things get pretty **** loud and sound great.

Have heard many, many setups and for $175 I would say these would be hard to beat.

Sure, the ID's could be louder, in the right sealed application.

My point had nothing to do with you having shared chambers or not. The point was you said you doubted the ID's would get louder based on your positive experience with the RSD's. That's simply not true.
And you saying 'sure, in the right sealed application' makes it sound like it would require stacking the deck, it wouldn't. The ID has more output potential sealed than does the RSD by quite a bit, period. Unless you stack the deck in the RSD's favor (putting the ID in an exceptionally small box, or grossly less power, etc), the ID WILL get louder.

Im glad you like your PG's. I hear good things.

 

[ABSOLUTEAUDIO 10+ year member]

I have sold many rsd subs. 10's and 12's and never had anyone complain. They are very clean sounding.

 

[Towncar 10+ year member]

cool man...i guess i should try a different sub with higher xmax since my glass boxes are sealed then...those xenon's are failry cheap //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/veryhappy.gif.fec4fed33b4a1279cf10bdd45a039dae.gif 20mm xmax and are suppose to wang the lows...

The rsds drop very low. As for the xenons, I havent found a woofer that drops lower than it.. They are absolutely rediculous.. They lack the upper bass region though.

People dont always look at specs.. Real world measurements are all that matters..

 

[Towncar 10+ year member]

Btw The rsds are 13mm xmax one way.. So 26mm xmax peak to peak ... Arent the ids 17mm peak to peak? If so, the rsds have more excursion..

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

Btw The rsds are 13mm xmax one way.. So 26mm xmax peak to peak ... Arent the ids 17mm peak to peak? If so, the rsds have more excursion..

pretty sure the 17 is one way....

 

[Towncar 10+ year member]

pretty sure the 17 is one way....

hmm

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Btw The rsds are 13mm xmax one way.. So 26mm xmax peak to peak ... Arent the ids 17mm peak to peak? If so, the rsds have more excursion..

Are you joking? No, Image Dynamics does not play games with specs like that, the ID's xmax spec is one-way linear. Nice try.

The rsds drop very low. As for the xenons, I havent found a woofer that drops lower than it.. They are absolutely rediculous.. They lack the upper bass region though.
People dont always look at specs.. Real world measurements are all that matters..

What 'real world measurements' are you referring to? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/eyebrow.gif.fe2c18d8720fe8c7eaed347b21ea05a5.gif

 

[Towncar 10+ year member]

Are you joking? No, Image Dynamics does not play games with specs like that, the ID's xmax spec is one-way linear. Nice try.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

NIce try? huh ? I already stated that both drivers were nice, I was simply wondering if that was one way, or peak to peak. When did I ever claim id was playing games It was simply a question, and nothing more.. That real world statement was directed towards anyone basing their decision soley on xmax. It wasnt necessarily directed towards anyone on this thread.. thanks

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif
NIce try? huh ? I already stated that both drivers were nice, I was simply wondering if that was one way, or peak to peak. When did I ever claim id was playing games It was simply a question, and nothing more.. That real world statement was directed towards anyone basing their decision soley on xmax. It wasnt necessarily directed towards anyone on this thread.. thanks

Well then, let me ask you this... what gave you the notion ID would use peak-to-peak figures? No respected manufacturer does. Definitely from left field... and coming from an RSD owner, doesn't seem like a leap in logic to me. You want your subs to be better, its understandable. Whether or not the ID's will get louder (and they will) does not diminish your happiness for your speakers, get over it.
Again, in terms of output potential for sealed apps, xmax reigns supreme. There's a popular push these days for 'real world' performance versus specs. I find it to be a crutch for people who do not comprehend the intricacies of the situation mathematically. Let me state this one last way... the sub with the greater xmax WILL have greater output potential in a sealed application, in "the real world".

Some of you guys seem to want to squirm around the fact the ID product WILL get louder. No stacking the deck with uneven installs needed, no 'real world vs specs' debates are necessary... this is quite a simple question to answer. The only ones who seem to try to be making it complicated in this thread are RSD owners. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Towncar 10+ year member]

Well then, let me ask you this... what gave you the notion ID would use peak-to-peak figures? No respected manufacturer does. Definitely from left field... and coming from an RSD owner, doesn't seem like a leap in logic to me. You want your subs to be better, its understandable. Whether or not the ID's will get louder (and they will) does not diminish your happiness for your speakers, get over it.
Again, in terms of output potential for sealed apps, xmax reigns supreme. There's a popular push these days for 'real world' performance versus specs. I find it to be a crutch for people who do not comprehend the intricacies of the situation mathematically. Let me state this one last way... the sub with the greater xmax WILL have greater output potential in a sealed application, in "the real world".

Some of you guys seem to want to squirm around the fact the ID product WILL get louder. No stacking the deck with uneven installs needed, no 'real world vs specs' debates are necessary... this is quite a simple question to answer. The only ones who seem to try to be making it complicated in this thread are RSD owners. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I dont know, just thought it was possible, but i never discredited id at any point in time. I have never owned an rsd sub, ever.. Nor do I intend to..//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif If you look back on the first page, You will see where i said for the op to just flip a coin between the two. Never did I say one was better than the other..

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I dont know, just thought it was possible, but i never discredited id at any point in time. I have never owned an rsd sub, ever.. Nor do I intend to..//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

Then your motive for trying to make the rsd look better than it is, escapes me. I guess you are just a big PG fan. *shrug* Otherwise I see no reason for under-your-breath come backs like 'dont believe xmax, go by real-world measurements'. It attempts to make my answer look wrong, and the rsd's possibly be louder... when we both know that's not true. Well, at least I know.
In response to your edit...

I dont know, just thought it was possible, but i never discredited id at any point in time. I have never owned an rsd sub, ever.. Nor do I intend to..//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif If you look back on the first page, You will see where i said for the op to just flip a coin between the two. Never did I say one was better than the other..

I never said you questioned which one is 'better'... i wouldn't even know what 'better' would mean. Im simply talking about output potential, given a sealed application, as has been stated all along. There is a clear-cut winner in that debate, and that goes to the ID. As for the rest, i dont know, nor do I care. I know the ID product sounds great (imo), but for all I know the RSD sounds 'better'. Not my point.

 

[Towncar 10+ year member]

Then your motive for trying to make the rsd look better than it is, escapes me. I guess you are just a big PG fan. *shrug* Otherwise I see no reason for under-your-breath come backs like 'dont believe xmax, go by real-world measurements'. It attempts to make my answer look wrong, and the rsd's possibly be louder... when we both know that's not true. Well, at least I know.
In response to your edit...

I never said you questioned which one is 'better'... i wouldn't even know what 'better' would mean. Im simply talking about output potential, given a sealed application, as has been stated all along. There is a clear-cut winner in that debate, and that goes to the ID. As for the rest, i dont know, nor do I care. I know the ID product sounds great (imo), but for all I know the RSD sounds 'better'. Not my point.

I have built a few boxes for friends, and have plenty of play time with the sds.. Im not sure what you are getting at here, but I wasnt trying to make the rsds look better. I simply didnt know if the ids were peak to peak or one way.. Now that it has been clarified, we can move on.. Like i mentioned in the begining, flip a coin, or just get whichever you can get the best deal on..

 

[innsanes 10+ year member]

Put them in a sealed enclosure and see which one gets louder, although I'd bet the btl has alot of non linear throw too, since it's purely an SPL driver. It can move further than 16mm, but it won't be linear, so for musical purposes I'd disregard it.
Anyway, here's why SPl subs dont' have huge excursion. In a ported box you let the port do most of the work. Near tuning a cones excursion is minimal. In this case, it's thermal power handling that will limit the woofer. The BTL handles alot more power, so in a case where excursion is low, the thermal power handling will determine overall SPL. No matter how much power you dump onto the woofer your unlikely to have it reach xmax, you get a small amount of excursion, with alot of sound at the tuning frequency of the box, since your causing the ports to react as well. A BTL might only move 9mm when you dump 15,000 watts onto it, but for a ported box near tuning that's alot of movement. A well designed ported box will cause alot of SPL from the ports reacting to the change in pressure that the 9mm of excursion is giving you. A fi q in the same box can't handle 15,000 watts, so it might only move 3mm, hence the sub won't move as much, which lowers output, not only because your sub moves less, but because the ports produce less noise as well.

What specs are important for overall SPl depends on how the driver is used. Tweeters need very very little excursion to get very loud.

In conclusion, and back on topic, for a subwoofer in a sealed enclosure, you have no ports. The drivers cone moving is all you have. Xmax and the surface area of the cone are all that play a role in clean output. Ported boxes near tuning control a cones movement, so in that case, high spl at a low frequency is again dictated by thermal limits. Also remember that each time you drop 1 octave, 1/2 a given frequency, you need 4x the amount of excursion to keep the same spl for a given driver. So a driver ability to play down to a given frequency at a set spl is determined by excursion.

ps. talk about a complex answer for a simple question. Here you were just wanted a quick forum boner vs thread.... haha, my bad..

Great answer man