ok, a mechanics perspective on the BIG3

[VOA_NIGHTMARE 10+ year member]

Ok do this, get the meter test it out. Then install the big 3 and let him see first hand what changes it has to the electrical system. Yes you can run the ground to the bat and not ground the bat to the chass but why spend that much money on wire when u can get 2 small pieces and just use the car as the ground.

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

Ok another response from father. he says that cars coming from factory are grounded enough to prevent spikes in the electrical system and chances are that the alternator and battery are grounded more than a couple of times and they are even grounded from the exhaust to the frame just to insure that there are no drops. And he is not saying that the big 3 does not work, he is saying to prevent doing the big three just wire the ground from the amp to the battery.
And he said there is no 18 awg romex //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

That eliminates the problem of an inadequate chassis ground...the problem is, I'd rather use two feet of cable and use the chassis as the ground return vs. running two seperate runs of 2awg through the firewall //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif At least for audio...I have the radios wired with dual runs of 8awg back to the battery, but that's more for noise reduction than anything else...

 

[VOA_NIGHTMARE 10+ year member]

The cars system is not designed to add a 1k amp on it neither. Any time you add something like this you need to adjust for it. They are set up for spikes but not large constint draws that will be happening when you add a amp. Being a mechanic as I said just with my plow many people know to do this. That is just something common when you add a electric plow to a truck you ground the batt's to the car.

 

[UndercoverPunk 5,000+ posts]

is it easier driving down a 2 lane highway with 100 cars per minute, or a 6 lane highway with 100 cars per minute?

Wire is cheap, do it all, why is he fighting you on this?

 

[iceteebone 5,000+ posts]

i just did the big 3 today on my stock alternator and i was reading before 14.1 volts at the amp, now i'm getting 14.5. don't have technical jargon to explain why, just did it and got results. .4 isn't much but my electrical system was pretty good to begin with.

 

[playa1 10+ year member]

is it easier driving down a 2 lane highway with 100 cars per minute, or a 6 lane highway with 100 cars per minute?
Wire is cheap, do it all, why is he fighting you on this?

hes not fighting, he just wants to know why. It's not like he wasnt going to let me do it or like i didnt want to do it, he just wanted it to be explained. If its the right way we like to learn why it is the right way, not just do it and get the results. Isn't that the way most people are, and the reason why people ask questions?

I'm still going to do it regardless, and i will be buying a yellow top to go with the upgrade.

Mike

 

[VOA_NIGHTMARE 10+ year member]

Its nice to see that you actualy want to learn why things work the way they do.

 

[playa1 10+ year member]

Thanks //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[dakotus 10+ year member]

everyones dad is the greatest dad in the world. Thats why they didnt make that shirt that says it for only your dad. Sorry for the harsh reality

 

[knukonceptz 10+ year member]

Ok, back to design of the electrical system, your adding a 90A load ON TOP of the current loads present in the car. Yes the car is designed to handle what it came with from the factory. So if you plan on running the rear defroster, heater, headlights and wipers WITH your radio, your drawing alot more curent then the factory intended and more then your ALT can put out. The battery will take up the slack, but needs to ba able to put that power out to the required circuits, this means adding additional grounds to the chasis.

You always want the shortest ground, running a ground wire from front to rear is not worth the trouble.

 

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

Ok, back to design of the electrical system, your adding a 90A load ON TOP of the current loads present in the car. Yes the car is designed to handle what it came with from the factory. So if you plan on running the rear defroster, heater, headlights and wipers WITH your radio, your drawing alot more curent then the factory intended and more then your ALT can put out. The battery will take up the slack, but needs to ba able to put that power out to the required circuits, this means adding additional grounds to the chasis.
You always want the shortest ground, running a ground wire from front to rear is not worth the trouble.

I'd say just do what your dad told you and run the ground up front to the battery. If it's more hassle than what its worth, then upgrade the big 3 without telling him. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I ran the grounds for my amps straight back to my battery, but since i have a regular cab truck it didn't take much wire. Although, i did have to hack the firewall a little bit to fit four runs of 1/0 through it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Almost all of the posts in this thread are civilized/informative, i'm impressed. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

in most cases it takes more wire to run from the amp to the battery ground than a whole big three upgrade. also a factory car was never intended to have a potential of 100 or more amps drawn from it by the audio system. i did the big 3 on my truck my voltage went from 13.4 (or so) to 14.2 so the factory wires were causing almost a 1 v drop. so basically it can least stop wasted performance.

 

[JeffyZ33 10+ year member]

Like someone said earlier, you may have an 8ga ground stock that will work fine for the vehicle STOCK.

Anything over 500ish watts you should be using 4ga or up. When I had 8ga wire ran and upgraded to 700rms, you it couldn't pull the power. Upgraded to 4ga and there wasn't a problem. Moral of the story? If you're pulling more than a 8ga wire can provide and have to upgrade to 4ga, yet still trying to ground through an 8ga, you're going to have problems.

 

[Prowler573 5,000+ posts]

ok, i told my dad ( he's a Mechanic) that i wanted to upgrade my big 3 and he says that it really doesnt need to be done. His perspective is that if the alternator is made to do say 105 amps, then the factory gave that Alternator big enough wire to to adequateley supply that 105 amps.

And I cannot with any honesty tell you or him that this is invalid information. But! That factory alternator/battery/associated wiring was designed by the manufacturer to adequately supply the needs of the vehicle itself and any and all possible options that may be purchased with it (speaking of options available from the manufacturer and/or dealer - not aftermarket) So with a factory capacity of 105 ampere output it will be completely capable of running your vehicle, the A/C, power windows/locks, etc etc etc just fine. Then drop a kilowatt or so worth of amplifier draw on that same stock electrical system. 105 amperes now has to supply the needs of the vehicle PLUS a kilowatt worth of audio...and route those current needs through not-very-big stock wiring. Like I've said in several other posts....upgrading the Big 3 is in no way meant to bolster the capacity of the charging system but rather supply it a more efficient path for the current to flow upon.
I don't think anyone's alleging that your father is wrong....simply that he's not quite understanding the exact purpose of why we recommend this course of action to almost everyone who may be experiencing problems after throwing a large, unexpected load in the way of audio gear on their charging systems.

 

[bikejunkie223 10+ year member]

I have seen noticeable gains in Hondas simply by adding a 4guage wire from the batt neg to ground, and not the other 2. FYI I am an ASE Master Technician- what others are saying is pretty accurate, the engine wiring was designed with a normal load characteristics of the car in mind, but even a modest system constitutes an electrical load the car was never designed to see. The big 3 may or may not help anything, but it won't hurt anything either.

 

[playa1 10+ year member]

everyones dad is the greatest dad in the world. Thats why they didnt make that shirt that says it for only your dad. Sorry for the harsh reality

Dude, STFU i never said my father was the greatest i was explaining his role so it shows he has a backround in the discussion at hand. Your input is not needed in this thread nor in the rest of the forum, go **** yourself and then kill yourself....

 

[bikejunkie223 10+ year member]

dude, you got some rage up in you! I understand though, I'd be pissed if someone talked trash about my dad too. You had to know you couldn't have a mature thread without someone trying to **** in it. It's the same as a moment of silence at a sports event, there is always some a-hole that goes Woo-Hoo!

 

[playa1 10+ year member]

Ok i told my dad, next week we are going to install the new amp (orion 1200) and measure voltage while running everything including the sub amp. then upgrade the big 3 and measure voltage and see what it says. Hopefully it will change his mind about it then. thank you for all your help and the informative posts(most of you) and to help me better understand this stuff. I'll post a thread next week with pictures about it, maybe it will help other people understand also.

 

[bikejunkie223 10+ year member]

cool, good luck bro.

 

[playa1 10+ year member]

dude, you got some rage up in you! I understand though, I'd be pissed if someone talked trash about my dad too. You had to know you couldn't have a mature thread without someone trying to **** in it. It's the same as a moment of silence at a sports event, there is always some a-hole that goes Woo-Hoo!

Haha yea, its not that he is only trashing my father but the point that there are these ******** in forums that dont think before they type and that tells you alot about them cause you can always edit a typing and you cant take back what has come out of your mouth.