ok, a mechanics perspective on the BIG3

[tommyk90 5,000+ posts]

Ok, back to design of the electrical system, your adding a 90A load ON TOP of the current loads present in the car. Yes the car is designed to handle what it came with from the factory. So if you plan on running the rear defroster, heater, headlights and wipers WITH your radio, your drawing alot more curent then the factory intended and more then your ALT can put out. The battery will take up the slack, but needs to ba able to put that power out to the required circuits, this means adding additional grounds to the chasis.
You always want the shortest ground, running a ground wire from front to rear is not worth the trouble.

I'd say just do what your dad told you and run the ground up front to the battery. If it's more hassle than what its worth, then upgrade the big 3 without telling him. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I ran the grounds for my amps straight back to my battery, but since i have a regular cab truck it didn't take much wire. Although, i did have to hack the firewall a little bit to fit four runs of 1/0 through it. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Almost all of the posts in this thread are civilized/informative, i'm impressed. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

in most cases it takes more wire to run from the amp to the battery ground than a whole big three upgrade. also a factory car was never intended to have a potential of 100 or more amps drawn from it by the audio system. i did the big 3 on my truck my voltage went from 13.4 (or so) to 14.2 so the factory wires were causing almost a 1 v drop. so basically it can least stop wasted performance.

 

[JeffyZ33 10+ year member]

Like someone said earlier, you may have an 8ga ground stock that will work fine for the vehicle STOCK.

Anything over 500ish watts you should be using 4ga or up. When I had 8ga wire ran and upgraded to 700rms, you it couldn't pull the power. Upgraded to 4ga and there wasn't a problem. Moral of the story? If you're pulling more than a 8ga wire can provide and have to upgrade to 4ga, yet still trying to ground through an 8ga, you're going to have problems.

 

[Prowler573 5,000+ posts]

ok, i told my dad ( he's a Mechanic) that i wanted to upgrade my big 3 and he says that it really doesnt need to be done. His perspective is that if the alternator is made to do say 105 amps, then the factory gave that Alternator big enough wire to to adequateley supply that 105 amps.

And I cannot with any honesty tell you or him that this is invalid information. But! That factory alternator/battery/associated wiring was designed by the manufacturer to adequately supply the needs of the vehicle itself and any and all possible options that may be purchased with it (speaking of options available from the manufacturer and/or dealer - not aftermarket) So with a factory capacity of 105 ampere output it will be completely capable of running your vehicle, the A/C, power windows/locks, etc etc etc just fine. Then drop a kilowatt or so worth of amplifier draw on that same stock electrical system. 105 amperes now has to supply the needs of the vehicle PLUS a kilowatt worth of audio...and route those current needs through not-very-big stock wiring. Like I've said in several other posts....upgrading the Big 3 is in no way meant to bolster the capacity of the charging system but rather supply it a more efficient path for the current to flow upon.
I don't think anyone's alleging that your father is wrong....simply that he's not quite understanding the exact purpose of why we recommend this course of action to almost everyone who may be experiencing problems after throwing a large, unexpected load in the way of audio gear on their charging systems.

 

[bikejunkie223 10+ year member]

I have seen noticeable gains in Hondas simply by adding a 4guage wire from the batt neg to ground, and not the other 2. FYI I am an ASE Master Technician- what others are saying is pretty accurate, the engine wiring was designed with a normal load characteristics of the car in mind, but even a modest system constitutes an electrical load the car was never designed to see. The big 3 may or may not help anything, but it won't hurt anything either.

 

[playa1 10+ year member]

everyones dad is the greatest dad in the world. Thats why they didnt make that shirt that says it for only your dad. Sorry for the harsh reality

Dude, STFU i never said my father was the greatest i was explaining his role so it shows he has a backround in the discussion at hand. Your input is not needed in this thread nor in the rest of the forum, go **** yourself and then kill yourself....

 

[bikejunkie223 10+ year member]

dude, you got some rage up in you! I understand though, I'd be pissed if someone talked trash about my dad too. You had to know you couldn't have a mature thread without someone trying to shit in it. It's the same as a moment of silence at a sports event, there is always some a-hole that goes Woo-Hoo!

 

[playa1 10+ year member]

Ok i told my dad, next week we are going to install the new amp (orion 1200) and measure voltage while running everything including the sub amp. then upgrade the big 3 and measure voltage and see what it says. Hopefully it will change his mind about it then. thank you for all your help and the informative posts(most of you) and to help me better understand this stuff. I'll post a thread next week with pictures about it, maybe it will help other people understand also.

 

[bikejunkie223 10+ year member]

cool, good luck bro.

 

[playa1 10+ year member]

dude, you got some rage up in you! I understand though, I'd be pissed if someone talked trash about my dad too. You had to know you couldn't have a mature thread without someone trying to shit in it. It's the same as a moment of silence at a sports event, there is always some a-hole that goes Woo-Hoo!

Haha yea, its not that he is only trashing my father but the point that there are these assholes in forums that dont think before they type and that tells you alot about them cause you can always edit a typing and you cant take back what has come out of your mouth.

 

[Lakota 5,000+ posts]

With the battery - to ground upgrade I had 14.4v or a tad more. Once I got all of the big 3 done my voltage is now 14.6. The Big 3 does work.

 

[forbidden 10+ year member]

I 100% disagree with the keep the wire as short as possible. A proper ground is one that is as low a resistance on the return as possible. With todays unibody vehicles constructed of glued together sheet metal (with many impurities) and crappy spot welds, a proper ground is one that is as low as possible and verified with a meter. Electricity is an algebra equation, what you do to one side you must do to the other. Make the currect transfer as effecient as possible.

A good ground is not about the amount or size of metal used in the return, but the resistance through it from point a to point b. If you cannot get a good ground of low resistance, it is off to the battery you go. If the ground is low, then certainly a good short ground wire is more than adequate.

If your amp is struggling to get power, it is going to manifest itself in many different forms, a bad ground of high resistance manifests itself with many a blown power supply in the amp.

Most people look at the big 3 as a power wire upgrade, think of the reverse side to it based on the algebra equation and you will see how important the ground wire really is.

 

[Rattlebrain 10+ year member]

Ok i told my dad, next week we are going to install the new amp (orion 1200) and measure voltage while running everything including the sub amp. then upgrade the big 3 and measure voltage and see what it says. Hopefully it will change his mind about it then. thank you for all your help and the informative posts(most of you) and to help me better understand this stuff. I'll post a thread next week with pictures about it, maybe it will help other people understand also.

Cool, I'm interested in this venture myself. Post lots of pics,results and stuff.

I personally think that the "big 3" is worth the effort even though I have not done it myself yet. But I plan on it. Have not seen the results of one verses the other. No one around here knows/cares about car audio but me.

 

[dakotus 10+ year member]

ok sorry you win, he is the greatest. Didnt know i was "trashing him" though.

show me where I 'edited' my post to say that. kthx

back to the big3

EDIT:

I dont know if this was mentioned or not, but, for how much the big3 kits out there cost, its worth a shot. Couldnt you measure the amperage off the alternator with a DMM?

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

You want to do some real good reading up on the big 3...do a search on CarSound.com forums...in the Richard Clark section...they've gotten into some good discussions on the subject...