Power caps just aren't worth it vs batteries. I'd get a second battery for $100 before a cap any day of the week. Caps will do they're job on lower wattage systems, but still they don't hold enough power to warrent the help they do. A second battery would do better overall and cost relatively the same. Caps have they're place for sure they are easier to install and look kool. I just think the price on them is BS. I'd say first step always to be a HO alternator though. Saving money on just getting different battery setups won't completely save you in the long run. Alternators die and they die faster when they are working as hard as they possibly can all the time. HO alts will save you from not being able to start/run your car, expensive as they may be they're the most worthwhile part of the electrical system.
retrojordans
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Elite
Upgrade your alternator.
Simple amperage draw formula:
Wattage + Wattage x efficiency % / Average voltage / 3 for music
1000 watt amp. 75% efficiency. Average voltage 14v. Music.
1000 x 1.75 = 1750 / 14 / 3 = 41
An amp producing 1,000 watts from 14 volts on normal everyday music will pull ROUGHLY 41 amperes.
If your stock alternator is say a 95 amp alt (producing 95amps when the engine is revved to 2,500rpms) 50amps @ idle. Say the stock components use 40 of those amps. That leaves you with 10 amps @ idle and 55 amps when the engine is revved to 2,500rpms.
Whenever you are idling your amp is pulling 30+ amps that your alternator cannot produce...It has to pull that power from somewhere so it draws on the battery...Batteries only hold so much energy, and as they use it their output drops rapidly. Alternators put out their power steadily for years, because that's what they were designed to do, that is their function.
An alternator is a gas powered generator.
If your amp is pulling 40 amps on average music..Imagine bass heavy rap or whatever...On certain bass notes try doubling that 40 to 80. Pick up an alternator with some headroom, say 150amps @ idle. This leaves you with 50 + amps to power the car's stock stuff, wipers, AC, etc..And 100+ to run just that amp. This will ensure your amp is constantly running on clean steady voltage from a source meant to deliver it, the alternator.
retrojordans
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Elite
Your logic is seriously skewed, and to be frank you are wrong. Don't hold enough power? Dude there are capacitors powering city buses for god's sake...Go read a book or something..wow.
A battery has its own internal resistance which is much higher than that of a car audio power capacitor. Because of this extra internal resistance it is not an effective means of delivering large amounts of instantaneous current (with exception to a few expensive high end batteries). The capacitor acts like a small tank with a large hose while a battery acts like a large tank with a small hose. So with a capacitor installed you can deliver a large current burst during a music transient and then the capacitor can recharge during the non-peak portions of the music.
There are exceptions like large batteries that can discharge 300 amps for 20+ seconds straight...While doing so is HUGELY detrimental to the battery's life span, it can none the less deliver. Batteries that can put out such large current draws for that ammount of time will be in between $300-$400 brand new. Plus you will want to invest in a battery charge / maintainer with a de-sulfation cycle and a few other goodies, and if you're lucky under those conditions for the battery to last a couple years.
A capacitor can discharge equal loads with no adverse consequences..They were designed to do this day in and day out unlike batteries. And all it needs is to be steadily topped off by the alternator..
When you start looking into actual quality gear and not Best Buy garbage, you will find things meant to do a good job, as opposed to marketing hype.
Amazon.com: XStatic 35 Farad Capacitor : SuperCap 100: Electronics
retrojordans
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Elite
In conclusion businesses sell the items that have the biggest profit margin. A 1 farad capacitor might have enough burst capability to barely power a medium sized dil-do, but that dil-do power supply cost the company selling it $15 and you just bought it for $129.99.
Now you start opening your eyes, and looking into quality gear and you'll find 30-50-100-500 farad caps that will -- in combination with a high output alternator -- be a much more reliable source of fast, burst, peak amperes on DEMAND in fractions of a second, while recharging often hundreds of times faster than a battery.
Please get good kiddies...Learn that capacitors weren't invented for car audio...But they do what they are meant to do...There is just no arguing that..If you buy garbage you get 1 farad kiddie bullshiit...Just like buying P1's or W0's wtf did you expect? ROFL.
Now you start opening your eyes, and looking into quality gear and you'll find 30-50-100-500 farad caps that will -- in combination with a high output alternator -- be a much more reliable source of fast, burst, peak amperes on DEMAND in fractions of a second, while recharging often hundreds of times faster than a battery.
Please get good kiddies...Learn that capacitors weren't invented for car audio...But they do what they are meant to do...There is just no arguing that..If you buy garbage you get 1 farad kiddie bullshiit...Just like buying P1's or W0's wtf did you expect? ROFL.
VWBobby
10+ year member
PG and SS nuthugger
Finally! Someone that understands capacitors, batteries, and charging systems. It seems like everyone is so full of BS on this forum, that unless you're running a bank of batteries and a 350A alternator, you're an idiot.
Fact of the matter is, 50-80% of the average systems out there could benefit from a 1-2 farad capacitor. Yes, I've seen it make a difference myself, on dimming lights.
The point about discharge rate of a capacitor verses the average AGM battery is very valid. A battery can deliver enough power to start a car for a good amount of time (20+ seconds). It might take 200 amps and on a 600CCA you will drain the battery quickly.
Same with stereo system. A 20 second burp will drain your battery, where average music will only draw 1/3rd of your power. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif
Agreed, Sex4ears is an idiot kid with no stereo telling people what to do....
Fact of the matter is, 50-80% of the average systems out there could benefit from a 1-2 farad capacitor. Yes, I've seen it make a difference myself, on dimming lights.
The point about discharge rate of a capacitor verses the average AGM battery is very valid. A battery can deliver enough power to start a car for a good amount of time (20+ seconds). It might take 200 amps and on a 600CCA you will drain the battery quickly.
Same with stereo system. A 20 second burp will drain your battery, where average music will only draw 1/3rd of your power. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif
Agreed, Sex4ears is an idiot kid with no stereo telling people what to do....
In the late 90's it was common place to use caps. We did an install with (4) Memphis 15"LVS on (4)Memphis ST1100D... a 440 watt front stage amp for a total of 4840 watts RMS. Electrical was a Stinger HO alternator, 4 Stinger batteries, and a Alumapro 20 farad cap. The alternator was olny like 150 amps or so, but the car had no dimming issues at all.
They are generally useless if you're trying to use them to solve voltage drop issues. That's a fact. They have their place, but that's not it.
Yes 3000 watts on a tone or burp can draw massive current, however music as you pointed out doesn't work like that. Even the heavy bass music I listen to still has enough breaks for the alternator to keep my batteries fully charged.
A battery is definitely 100x more effective than a cap, especially in the scenario YOU described of a steady tone/burp. A cap is especially useless in that regard where, by your own words, it "dumps it on command".
"So first of all you aren't seeing 3,000 watts with no voltage drop on a 135 amp alt and a $100 deka battery...at all."
If you don't believe me I'll have a video up tomorrow of me playing full tilt, windshield wipers on, headlights and interior lights with my DMM metered.
Not exactly bullshit, an extra 105AH can make a big difference...
Like I said, I agree alternators are important, however (like batteries) they are over-stressed. You need both to tango, a decent alt and a good power reserve.
retrojordans
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Elite
You are totally clueless.
retrojordans
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Elite
Read my posts on this thread and learn something.
retrojordans
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Elite
Are you this stupid?
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