New to modifying car audio systems; would like some help verifying my selection of components.

[JustinStone]

Hi all,

I've only just begun modifying my car's audio, and I would like an upgrade to my system. After a lot of research and window shopping, I have created a list of components I think would be worth the dollar. The list is:

• DD monoblock dm1500a (580 cont watt)(enclosure mounted)(subject to upgrade)
  • 
  • two 12" Alpine R-W12D4 (dual 4-ohm) (750 cont watt)
  • 
  • ported enclosure
• DD 4 channel 100 watt (cont watt for 4-ohm)
  • 
  • Alpine X-S65C 6.5" component (max rms 120w)
  • 
    
  • Alpine R-S69C.2 6x9 component (max rms 100w)
  • 

I'm open to advice, change, and criticism. I have 4 awg wiring already set up for the subwoofer, and wiring this system is quite simple. I am working with a Chrysler Pt Cruiser: 2.4L Gt. and a Kenwood KMM-BT525hd.


After all that I suppose the questions I have are:

• Does this system provide distorted audio?
• Are there any improvements I can make?
• Does the inconsistency of brands cause any problems?

Click to read more...

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

DD amps are known to be very strong. You should be bumping up to 1/0 gauge cable for a run back from the battery, you may run #4 gauge to your mids and highs amp but do run 1/0 into the mono block. I use the orange "ultra flex" cable from weldingsupply.com with good results. Sometimes you can get the 00 gauge for just a little bit more than the 1/0 depending on what sales they're running.

Alpine Type R and X are both great drivers. Conventional wisdom is to not put mids and highs in the rear, it's mostly wasted money. I'd throw the rear 6x9s right out and drop the money you save into a good round of sound deadening for the front speaker locations you'll get better sound in the long run that way. Might switch the 4 channel to some 2 channel version if you go that route.

While Type R subs are good for big box store brand you can typically do better for the price. What's your goal here and precisely how much space do you have for a box? You can build your own box, right? Pairing sub(s) with correct airspace and port tuning is absolutely critical and you're at the point power-wise where there's several single subs that could take the power you have on tap so figure out what you want to do, how much space you want to sacrifice, and plan from there. The DD sub lineup is top tier build quality (at least their US made lines), does your DD dealer have any of that he can get you into a package deal? They're a little spendy but they perform as advertised (in a good box) and hold resale value better than the Alpine subs will. Really even DD's import stuff (redline series) is pretty impressive but if you're going to buy their woofers may as well buy the stuff they build in house.

 

[JustinStone]

DD amps are known to be very strong. You should be bumping up to 1/0 gauge cable for a run back from the battery, you may run #4 gauge to your mids and highs amp but do run 1/0 into the mono block. I use the orange "ultra flex" cable from weldingsupply.com with good results. Sometimes you can get the 00 gauge for just a little bit more than the 1/0 depending on what sales they're running.

Alpine Type R and X are both great drivers. Conventional wisdom is to not put mids and highs in the rear, it's mostly wasted money. I'd throw the rear 6x9s right out and drop the money you save into a good round of sound deadening for the front speaker locations you'll get better sound in the long run that way. Might switch the 4 channel to some 2 channel version if you go that route.

While Type R subs are good for big box store brand you can typically do better for the price. What's your goal here and precisely how much space do you have for a box? You can build your own box, right? Pairing sub(s) with correct airspace and port tuning is absolutely critical and you're at the point power-wise where there's several single subs that could take the power you have on tap so figure out what you want to do, how much space you want to sacrifice, and plan from there. The DD sub lineup is top tier build quality (at least their US made lines), does your DD dealer have any of that he can get you into a package deal? They're a little spendy but they perform as advertised (in a good box) and hold resale value better than the Alpine subs will. Really even DD's import stuff (redline series) is pretty impressive but if you're going to buy their woofers may as well buy the stuff they build in house.

I don't really have a goal, but I do want my audio to sound nice at high volume without distortion. I like to feel the bass kick in my chest, but while listening to rock at high volume I can hear a lot of distortion in the low mids whilst the cymbals play. I have resolved the issue for now by lowering the 2.5k hz to 4.5k hz range, but this dulls the "crisp" smash.

For the box I have a 1.75' depth to work with, and 12" sub mounting diameter. Approximately 24L of air when empty, with 2.5ft^2 port.

I understand your point about the rears not mattering as much, but I do need an upgrade from paper cone kenwoods I currently have. How about the R series, but the coaxial without tweeter and crossover instead? Keep the factory cabling or use the receiver's coax cable outputs? The factory cables are around 16awg, and I wish to get the full range of my speakers.

The DD dealer I visited only seemed to possess the redline series, but tbh I feel that's good enough if I go that route. The d6 was recommended for the setup I have planned.

Thank you for the information, I'll be sure to upgrade my cabling, and look into that "Ultra flex".

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I don't really have a goal, but I do want my audio to sound nice at high volume without distortion. I like to feel the bass kick in my chest, but while listening to rock at high volume I can hear a lot of distortion in the low mids whilst the cymbals play. I have resolved the issue for now by lowering the 2.5k hz to 4.5k hz range, but this dulls the "crisp" smash.

For the box I have a 1.75' depth to work with, and 12" sub mounting diameter. Approximately 24L of air when empty, with 2.5ft^2 port.

I understand your point about the rears not mattering as much, but I do need an upgrade from paper cone kenwoods I currently have. How about the Rbut all but the 700 line uses stamped frame which is just unacceptable at the price point IMO series, but the coaxial without tweeter and crossover instead? Keep the factory cabling or use the receiver's coax cable outputs? The factory cables are around 16awg, and I wish to get the full range of my speakers.

The DD dealer I visited only seemed to possess the redline series, but tbh I feel that's good enough if I go that route. The d6 was recommended for the setup I have planned.

Thank you for the information, I'll be sure to upgrade my cabling, and look into that "Ultra flex".

Really ditch the rears entirely. You won't miss them and once you put a sub in the trunk they'll only be a source of trouble when that pressure wave hits them. If you absolutely insist, type R series are very nice sounding, type X even better. You'll be hard pressed to find anybody who has a bad word to say about either of those series of Alpine.

As far as your issue with 2.5K-4Khz range this can be a lot of things which may or may not be solved by: Getting better components (the components or crossover should not be the weak link if you already have the Type X in there). Better aiming/mounting locations for components. Going "active" (using separate channels for mids and tweets, bypassing passive crossover, and using crossovers on amp or head unit to dial in crossover points). Sometimes running one or both tweeters out of phase will tame this sort of issue as well. This kind of **** will drive you crazy trying to sort out but it's all par for the course when you're working in a car.

I'm not sure how I feel about DD redline series. I've seen some local doing nicely anything short of the 700 series will not hold with that amp. If you are running the 1 channel amp you mentioned in the first post you should find a dual 2 ohm sub which uses a 3" diameter coil. DD 700, 3500, or 9500 should hang with that amp and you should build the biggest box you can and use the "DD Box" ratio from their website. It will sound very good for the sort of music that's played on musical instruments.

Lastly, not sure if this is what you're asking, but stock speaker wire should be adequate to get signal from the amp into your doors or factory locations.

 

[BCotrell]

A few comments and agreements with @hispls.

-1/0 audio or 2/0 welding for you substage power wiring and big 3 if not already planned.
- that deck is pretty good. I had it in my first 4Runner. I thinnnnk it has active feature, pulled this from the manual. I could be wrong.

A Focus on front stage (Ditch rear speakers Monday drain) with Active with your type x’s (Ditch passive crossovers) or even using passive crossover in regular Component mode will yield positive results in sound result.Also, in an active scenario with tweeters And mids driven on separate amp channels or the Comp set bridged on a 4 channel should contribute to an improved result. Work that 13band eq for that Desired range but enable it first with control ability and powah
-that amp is dope but probably a current hog to achieve 1500 watts. The pt is a bigger version of a
Neon so the factory electrical wasn’t built with a whole lot of extra in the tank. Maybe a md1800.1 taramps full bridge would be better for your electrical environment/electrical efficiency. It would also save you significant dollars on the amp cost.
- Sounds like you’re trying to keep your current enclosure and just buy new subs. It’s apparent you want new subs but if I had to chose Only one i would be replacing enclosure before buying new subs. All The ******** aside, if you buy new subs have a custom enclosure built for them. A couple sundown sa-12 d4’s match the current market price for those alpines. So would some ampere audio rve 12’s. Beefy pair of 10’s may also give you more flexibility for your trunk enclosure (Space for an second battery maybe) and save you some doll hairs.

 

[JustinStone]

Really ditch the rears entirely. You won't miss them and once you put a sub in the trunk they'll only be a source of trouble when that pressure wave hits them. If you absolutely insist, type R series are very nice sounding, type X even better. You'll be hard pressed to find anybody who has a bad word to say about either of those series of Alpine.

As far as your issue with 2.5K-4Khz range this can be a lot of things which may or may not be solved by: Getting better components (the components or crossover should not be the weak link if you already have the Type X in there). Better aiming/mounting locations for components. Going "active" (using separate channels for mids and tweets, bypassing passive crossover, and using crossovers on amp or head unit to dial in crossover points). Sometimes running one or both tweeters out of phase will tame this sort of issue as well. This kind of **** will drive you crazy trying to sort out but it's all par for the course when you're working in a car.

I'm not sure how I feel about DD redline series. I've seen some local doing nicely anything short of the 700 series will not hold with that amp. If you are running the 1 channel amp you mentioned in the first post you should find a dual 2 ohm sub which uses a 3" diameter coil. DD 700, 3500, or 9500 should hang with that amp and you should build the biggest box you can and use the "DD Box" ratio from their website. It will sound very good for the sort of music that's played on musical instruments.

Lastly, not sure if this is what you're asking, but stock speaker wire should be adequate to get signal from the amp into your doors or factory locations.

I'll be ditching the rears and focusing on the front then. As of now I have two 3.5" hertz DCX that I don't plan on amplifying, but I do plan on keeping in the dash. Should I route my front 6.5" door speakers to rear inputs and reduce the distance from the receiver in the settings whilst setting my 3.5"s as front speakers?

I plan on getting the DD D700 with dual 2ohm, as of now. This should work with the ported enclosure I have I believe. The enclosure takes up practically the entire trunk, leaving inches of room to work with on the sides and between the decklid. I will be facing the subs upward, and mounting the amp on the enclosure for easy removal for cargo. I have 175 amp quick disconnects that fit up to 1/0 wire.

I have my eye on the DD SC4a, although I am completely unsure of how to tune it. I'm sure I can figure it out, but as of now I have crammed a lot of new terminology and processes into my head that I want to sit on, learn and think about for a while.

p.s- yeah, ya answered my question about the stock speaker wire

 

[BCotrell]

I'll be ditching the rears and focusing on the front then. As of now I have two 3.5" hertz DCX that I don't plan on amplifying, but I do plan on keeping in the dash. Should I route my front 6.5" door speakers to rear inputs and reduce the distance from the receiver in the settings whilst setting my 3.5"s as front speakers?

I plan on getting the DD D700 with dual 2ohm, as of now. This should work with the ported enclosure I have I believe. The enclosure takes up practically the entire trunk, leaving inches of room to work with on the sides and between the decklid. I will be facing the subs upward, and mounting the amp on the enclosure for easy removal for cargo. I have 175 amp quick disconnects that fit up to 1/0 wire.

I have my eye on the DD SC4a, although I am completely unsure of how to tune it. I'm sure I can figure it out, but as of now I have crammed a lot of new terminology and processes into my head that I want to sit on, learn and think about for a while.

p.s- yeah, ya answered my question about the stock speaker wire

Your Deck and that sc4a-
the sc4a is an loc. You absolutely don’t need that with the Kenwood headunit you have....don’t overbuy gear.

sub box-
“should work with the enclosure you have” is Often the difference between someone reporting that their new system is amazing vs saying “it doesn’t sound as good as I thought it would”. How much room it takes up In your trunk isn’t Really any indicator of its appropriateness to new subs. Better off buying less expensive subs vs cheaPing out on the

Also two d2 subs wires to a final .5 ohm load or 2 ohm series parallel. Why wouldn’t you do dual d4’s and optimize the output and efficiency of the amp you pic.

3.5 coaxials-
A comp set and coaxial set in the front is going to be a tuning nightmare. Sell those coaxials and put a comp set in your doors.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

Also two d2 subs wires to a final .5 ohm load

I believe he is only using one sub.

This should work with the ported enclosure I have I believe.

Should be easy enough to get a tape measure and do some double checking on the volume, port area and port depth. DD subs sound good/get loud in the "DD Box" (see DD website). Those ratios work well for most subs that are high motor force and highly damped (stiff suspension). It'll sound really punchy for your rock music and similar. You should really like it. The big caveat being I've had mixed results crowding stuff into trunks. Trunks are notoriously hard to get big sound out of in general and often a smaller box that leaves room for the sound wave to get up front will outperform a bigger box that is wedged in super tight. Trunks are also super finicky with box position and sub/port aiming. Moving things around just a little bit or changing orientation of something will usually make a dramatic change in frequency response and overall output.

This box is about 3 cube net and works pretty well as it sits in the trunk of my Corolla. Box was originally used in my old Jeep and I was doing 148 and high change dB with it and it plays music well enough. Subs I use perform very similar to DD "power tuned" type. Anyway, the takeaway here is there's plenty of room for the sound waves to get up front and there's more than a port width distance in front of the port so that can function as intended.

As far as mids and highs, the more speakers you have and the more different location sound is coming from the more problems you're likely to have. What we're generally trying to do is replicate what you'd get in a proper listening room in a house. A left and right speaker and you at the corners of an equilateral triangle. Sound waves from everything hit your ears in phase and exactly at the same time from all sound sources. The higher the frequency in question the more likely you'll run into noticing issues if all the sound isn't coming from precisely the same space. Of course once you consider this is the optimum you can imagine why everything in a car is not conducive to this, but the closer we can get to that from the start the less fuckery you have to do later to try to fix issues.

So that said, I'd personally retire the 3" drivers particularly if they're on the dash, I think you'll be hard pressed to get them to sound right and trust me, the type X components on their own on 100W will be plenty loud and clear. Or maybe you're a trial by fire type of guy so give them a whirl but do test without them at least and prepare yourself for the idea of removing them entirely. Less is more much of the time here if your aim is good sound.

And yes, you absolutely want to use RCA cables as a source to the amp as opposed to high level inputs.