New SI Mag

[denim 5,000+ posts]

I know that some people think that bigger subs = better. The new Mag will weigh about the same as the current model, but it will work in smaller enclosures and it will also have a completely different look. And to be honest, 99.99% of Mag owners have probably never driven the driver past 2" of throw while in an enclosure by accident. If they go over 2" of throw, it's usually on purpose for visual satisfaction only. Right now I don't see the need to make the driver incredibly deep when it will do very very little for the people who are going to buy a Mag. Buying a Mag is buying the ultimate SQL driver out there, not about weight or depth.
And yes, there are lot of companies that have sold on looks alone, but if you could look at TC's sales sheets I'll bet you'll find a lot more middle-weight and small-subwoofer sales compared to the big 90 lb LMS's.

I don't see any need to make the Mag considerably bigger and heavier when I can design it to perform the exact same way it does now, while working in smaller enclosures, sounding better, and handling the same amount of power.

Believe me, I am right there with you on smaller enclsoures. Don't get me wrong, I loved the old Vegas but, not every one has 3.5 cubes to give up for a 12" sub. So I am voting for the smaller enclosure design. You know this by now, with the market reach of DIY installs expanding, the push for shallow mount or small box speakers are growing, and probably out numbers the DIY'ers like us who are not that worried about cargo room in search of the best sound.

 

[Megalomaniac 5,000+ posts]

is it possible to do woven tinsels?

 

[bonesninja 5,000+ posts]

i vote for the small application/same awesome sound like denim did

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

i give my proxy vote to denim

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

 

[bonesninja 5,000+ posts]

i vote for the small application/same awesome sound like denim did

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

there i fixed it

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

there i fixed it

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/graduate.gif.d982460be9f153bb54e5d4cb744f6ae8.gif:graduate:

 

[PatFitz9 10+ year member]

i have been going through subs left and right to find one that works in a small enclosure yet delivers what i want. for me, the current mag 12 is just about perfect. and if you can acomplish what you're aiming for, i think that you will get some good sales in return. hell if you can just do what the current mag does, but in a smaller box you already sold me on at least one //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

your trying to do the impossible... smaller box same bandwidth but same output. it doesn't add up...

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

your trying to do the impossible... smaller box same bandwidth but same output. it doesn't add up...

Actually, I can and I have. The enclosure requirements haven't gone from 3 cubes to 0.5 cubes, but the enclosure requirements are smaller for the new version. Enclosure requirements are smaller, same/lower Qtc per given box volume (1 cube sealed in this instance) with a hair more low end extension, the same SPL ability, and lower inductance, which means a broader bandwidth and overall better performance. One can do a lot when you designing a new driver from scratch and do it correctly.

Oh, and tinsel slap won't be a problem. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[innsanes 10+ year member]

LOUDER SPL, Better SQ , new cone design or material, I don't know if all those can be accomplish but it would be nice.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

Actually, I can and I have. The enclosure requirements haven't gone from 3 cubes to 0.5 cubes, but the enclosure requirements are smaller for the new version. Enclosure requirements are smaller, same/lower Qtc per given box volume (1 cube sealed in this instance) with a hair more low end extension, the same SPL ability, and lower inductance, which means a broader bandwidth and overall better performance. One can do a lot when you designing a new driver from scratch and do it correctly.
Oh, and tinsel slap won't be a problem. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

if your altering box size its not a motor adjustment if it is its going to be pretty minimal unless you change it a god deal... increased output will cone from increased acceleration... this means ether higher power handling or a narrower bandwidth... if you want more low-end altering FS helps a-lot but mechanical damping becomes high and with over 250grams of MMS not very controlled.. sure it will work for smaller boxes but you must not forget you sacrifice efficiency...

again gaisn could come from more ideal spiders or a larger/smaller top-plate/coil.. there are really alot of ways to alter the woofers, but simply lowering inductance won't nessicarally lower hear-able distortion and may actually hurt its "SQ"

im not doubting ya just pondering the fact...

 

[Electrodynamic 10+ year member]

if your altering box size its not a motor adjustment if it is its going to be pretty minimal unless you change it a god deal... increased output will cone from increased acceleration... this means ether higher power handling or a narrower bandwidth... if you want more low-end altering FS helps a-lot but mechanical damping becomes high and with over 250grams of MMS not very controlled.. sure it will work for smaller boxes but you must not forget you sacrifice efficiency...
again gaisn could come from more ideal spiders or a larger/smaller top-plate/coil.. there are really alot of ways to alter the woofers, but simply lowering inductance won't nessicarally lower hear-able distortion and may actually hurt its "SQ"

im not doubting ya just pondering the fact...

And I never said all of this was going to come from just a new motor. I said "designing a new driver from scratch." The only thing that will be the same on the new Mag vs the current Mag is the diameter and material of the voice coil former. Everything else is going to be brand new.

 

[sundownz Pro Seller]

if your altering box size its not a motor adjustment if it is its going to be pretty minimal unless you change it a god deal... increased output will cone from increased acceleration... this means ether higher power handling or a narrower bandwidth... if you want more low-end altering FS helps a-lot but mechanical damping becomes high and with over 250grams of MMS not very controlled.. sure it will work for smaller boxes but you must not forget you sacrifice efficiency...
again gaisn could come from more ideal spiders or a larger/smaller top-plate/coil.. there are really alot of ways to alter the woofers, but simply lowering inductance won't nessicarally lower hear-able distortion and may actually hurt its "SQ"

im not doubting ya just pondering the fact...

You lost me when you mentioned acceleration //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif If a speaker is to produce 30 Hz, it must accelerate the same as any other speaker producing 30 hz.

Over 250 grams isn't controlled? I suggest avoiding generalized statements. I guess someone forgot to tell the 05' 12" XXX that, as it has about 400 grams of moving mass and is pretty controlled.

You must also remember that "efficiency" doesn't work all that well on subwoofers to describe their output for their intended purpose. If you raise Mms, what happens? You lose "sensitivity" but the low-end response increases. For instance, I drew up two designs for a very similar woofer, one has 3dB less sensitivity but has MORE output under 50 Hz, in a smaller box, at any power level.

I'd also like to know how lowering inductance, with no other changes, would hurt SQ. What you want is a more constant inductance... a flatter curve. Now, if you decrease inductance and have a curve with more variance, then yes, it will sound "worse" than before. You can't just use inductance as a static value to describe all that much. What Nick is doing is lowering the static value AND flattening the curve.

Anyhow... Nick does know a thing or two about woofer design, he fully understands Hoffmans law, and has been doing this for a while. Make no mistake, the new Mag will be better in every important category whatever route he goes with it.

 

[dvrmstrng 5,000+ posts]

pwnt

 

[bose301s 5,000+ posts]

You lost me when you mentioned acceleration //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif If a speaker is to produce 30 Hz, it must accelerate the same as any other speaker producing 30 hz.
Over 250 grams isn't controlled? I suggest avoiding generalized statements. I guess someone forgot to tell the 05' 12" XXX that, as it has about 400 grams of moving mass and is pretty controlled.

You must also remember that "efficiency" doesn't work all that well on subwoofers to describe their output for their intended purpose. If you raise Mms, what happens? You lose "sensitivity" but the low-end response increases. For instance, I drew up two designs for a very similar woofer, one has 3dB less sensitivity but has MORE output under 50 Hz, in a smaller box, at any power level.

I'd also like to know how lowering inductance, with no other changes, would hurt SQ. What you want is a more constant inductance... a flatter curve. Now, if you decrease inductance and have a curve with more variance, then yes, it will sound "worse" than before. You can't just use inductance as a static value to describe all that much. What Nick is doing is lowering the static value AND flattening the curve.

Anyhow... Nick does know a thing or two about woofer design, he fully understands Hoffmans law, and has been doing this for a while. Make no mistake, the new Mag will be better in every important category whatever route he goes with it.

Yea, I think he meant the cone would need more velocity, which is true. But as for acceleration, to change directions 30 times in a second is the same acceleration no matter how far it travels.