New High Quality System

[leonsv 10+ year member]

http://knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KAR4-2M
Good enough for an RCA?

http://knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOLAK84

Will that kit do?

So now I have EVERYTHING I think

the rca's are good, but i suggest you used this instead.

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMaster.cfm?Category=Amp%20Installation%20Kits#

because, 8 gauge wiring usually are best used in systems with roughly 500 rms and your jbl will be pushing 123rms x2 + 340 rms x1 = around 600- 650 rms (considering they underrate these amps somewhat) so get a 4 gauge to be sure and it also makes it easier on the charging system.

 

[leonsv 10+ year member]

Hi, Im going to be doing pretty much the same thing on my 04 accord. Keeping stock HU. Im getting the slc 265 kicks, keeping some Sony 6*9s in the back, and was thinking about getting a USAmps XT1600.4, and a LOC.
Question is... would I be better off with a 4 channel or 2 channel amp? Do I need a equalizer/crossover? And, do you think I could do this as my very first install?

Thanks.

they are decent amps, personally i wouldn't buy from us amps because of the re ordeal...and how us amps went from a small time company to jl wannabe...with a annoying chick on their website...

and don't run the slc kicks for a first time install.... the kicks have a differently configured woofer that requires hours of tuning like they say on their website. just get the standard version for $100 less. And the amps depends on how many speakers you want to run, if you want to run both the rainbows and the sony's get a 4 channel, if you decide to not run the sony's (which i strongly suggest) then get a 2 channel for the front... cheaper, better sound stage most of the time and did i mention cheaper...

now it's always good to have an equalizer with a stock headunit like the rf 360 or the jl cleansweep but a loc would do the job.

finally this is a easy setup to do... nothing too dramatic so it should be easy. If you take the advices i gave you, you will save 200 bucks and have perhaps a system better suited for you.

 

[Freestyler717 10+ year member]

Thanks leonsv! I laughed at the USAmps website comment. So, now I'm thinkin of gettin the SLC 265, with 2 channel amp, and LOC. Is there a way to keep the 6*9s working through the stock HU, because I got them only ~4 months ago... Or would that degrade the SQ of the system?... The reason I had wanted the 4 channel was because my 6*9s were fairly new (and for people sitting in the back?). Anyway, I am willing to disconnect the 6*9s and go with the 2-channel amp if they are going to ****... I was also thinking that rear filler was a good thing, but am beginning to realize that the front sound stage is more important.

 

[Excelsius 10+ year member]

Leon, the link you provided lists several items, including 8 gauge. I assume you said I should get 4 gauge, so :

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=eKo-K4

But it doesn't say whether it is 4 cahnnel or no.

I could also go with this:

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOL-AK44

It says for channel, even though is more expensive.

 

[Excelsius 10+ year member]

Hey freestyler, you live in LA as well. Where are you going to have your installation done? Maybe if we went to the same place, we'd get a fat discount?

Regarding the rear speakers, I was posting in 4 other forums and in 3 of them I was told to forget about the rear ones. So now I'm convinced I shouldn't waste money on them. If they get only 10% of the power, who cares anyway.

 

[Excelsius 10+ year member]

Check out what Lukas told me:

"The SLC265's are being made in Germany as we speak and pretty much everyone is out of stock from what I was told. I do have one set of SLC265kicks left though. They are actually preferable over the SLC265's if you are running a separate subwoofer. The kick component sets are designed to be used with an 80Hz highpass crossover to allow the subwoofer play the low-end and the component woofer to focus on the 80-180Hz range for increased midbass.

http://www.audiojunkies.com/product_detail.php?cid=185&product_id=277

Let me know if you have any questions or if I can help with anything else."

That other guy in this forum PM-ed me back. He has one and sells for $230. Perhaps I should get that despite what Lukas is saying.

 

[plumpjack 10+ year member]

Thanks Phyph. Your insight about the sub for tha classical was really helpful so I will definitely get a sub and rock it with Beethoven's fifth.

Hey there, sounds like you're going to build a great system and not just go into things blindly which is unfortunately what I have done. Speaker choice is extremely personal so do try to go out and listen to as many brands as possible as well as listen to the input of people on the forums. I ended up liking the FOCALs I heard in stores, however in my car they sound a bit bright due to the metal tweeter.

For me, well-recorded music (classical or otherwise) is all about the soundstage it creates. I'm having some major soundstage issues in my setup due to speaker placement and having mulitiple sources (read: rear speakers). I'm now having to re-think my setup and possibly sell the Focals at a loss to a coworker and re-design the setup with higher-end speakers.

Try to find a good recording you are VERY familiar with preferably from a label known for it's recording techniques, say Chesky. Take it to stores, to high-end home audio stores and listen to it. Use that as a reference for what you want in your car. Unfortunately I upgraded on a bit of a whim and discounted what I knew of home audio thinking it wouldn't matter all that much in an inexpensive car. It does.

Secondly, I too had the same perception of not needing a sub for classical in earlier setups thinking I didn't want that "boom" sound. A good quality sub really does add to the experience of the recording for many instruments, harmonics, etc. Bear in mind that a double-bass (used extensively in sympony and chamber music not to mention jazz & blues) will go down to E1 on a four-string bass, or 41.20 hertz, or B (when 5 strings are used) at 30.87 hertz. That screams sub right there... Heck you'll find it even enhances the "realism" of other insruments: piano, cello, viola de gamba, etc.

Cheers!

plumpjack

 

[Excelsius 10+ year member]

I’m getting a totally different system!

I talked to the “president” of Assassin (the guy has played for years in an orchestra!) and he told me that there have been guys who work for rainbow but buy his midrange speakers – better quality and cheaper price. So I got the speakers from him for seventy. He recommended Seas tweeter for another $70 (will get for me). Is going to give me the Assassin 8 sub AND sealed enclosure for $100. For the amp, he said that Zed Audio is the best in the market (they are just not known). He recommended me Zed Audio Draconia for about $400.:

http://zedaudio.com/products.html

http://zedaudio.com/Products/Draconia-Spec.htm

http://zedaudio.com/Photographs/Draconia-pics.htm

Get’s even better. I got on the phone with ZED and talked to the president, Steve. We had another long conversation and the only possible issue was going to be lack of power for classical music (MAYBE). So I got the Dracula and he gave me another amp for free just for the sub (not top of the line, but good enough for the sub).

Both of these guys were very well versed in classical music. I don’t think my speaker wires are going to be replaced. If only I could find a good RCA and installation kit, I’d be set. Perhaps I should call them back and ask.

Even though my system won’t be as expensive, I’m sure that it will produce a much higher quality sound than many systems that people pay over $2000. Maybe it won’t be as “powerful,” but for me the power is in the quality.

 

[leonsv 10+ year member]

I’m getting a totally different system!
I talked to the “president” of Assassin (the guy has played for years in an orchestra!) and he told me that there have been guys who work for rainbow but buy his midrange speakers – better quality and cheaper price. So I got the speakers from him for seventy. He recommended Seas tweeter for another $70 (will get for me). Is going to give me the Assassin 8 sub AND sealed enclosure for $100. For the amp, he said that Zed Audio is the best in the market (they are just not known). He recommended me Zed Audio Draconia for about $400.:

http://zedaudio.com/products.html

http://zedaudio.com/Products/Draconia-Spec.htm

http://zedaudio.com/Photographs/Draconia-pics.htm

Get’s even better. I got on the phone with ZED and talked to the president, Steve. We had another long conversation and the only possible issue was going to be lack of power for classical music (MAYBE). So I got the Dracula and he gave me another amp for free just for the sub (not top of the line, but good enough for the sub).

Both of these guys were very well versed in classical music. I don’t think my speaker wires are going to be replaced. If only I could find a good RCA and installation kit, I’d be set. Perhaps I should call them back and ask.

Even though my system won’t be as expensive, I’m sure that it will produce a much higher quality sound than many systems that people pay over $2000. Maybe it won’t be as “powerful,” but for me the power is in the quality.

lol, good set up yeah that's another system you could go with. And your comment about zed audio not being known... it's not known to mainstream people, go to any sq competitor or professional car audio shops, they have heard of zed audio. The only reason i did not suggest them was because of the price, and i think you meant draconia ,yes it is a great amp. I talked to mr.mantz on an account of a custom zed audio gladius with 100rms at 8ohm only for my car. he is a great guy who offers flexibility on his products. But at 400 bucks a pop, it's pretty expensive... and the sub amp he offered you is a zed minilith no? they are great...period oh and audiojunkies.com carries zed audio

Also i wouldn't listen to everything a company tells you... unlike me he is trying to sell a product, ofcourse he'll tell you his stuff is better....lol Now i guess your going to run active then? or are you getting crossovers for the speakers? . Also 100 bucks for a sealed 8" seems too much for me... the supplies would cost about $10 and glue and carpet about $10 so i think i can do it in under $80....

also the ascendant being of better quality is complete bs... i bet he didn't tell you exactly what rainbow the guy had before going to the ascendant... Also i've heard people who had problems with the ascendant 6.5"... look around here and at diymobileaudio.com for horror stories lol

personally i think you should run passive rainbow slc 265's...

the ascendant and seas combo (by the way which tweeter s r u using?) with about $30-$70 x2 for passive xovers or $200> hu or equalizer that can run active is pretty **** expensive for your budget... not to mention the hours of tuning...worthwhile but a major pain in the a$$ nonetheless.

although i do agree that zed audio are great, they are not the best in the market, i assure you. You can't say what's the best until you've used a audison venti thesis ($8000), sinfoni desiderio ($8000), brax graphic ($3000), mcintosh 602tm ($3000), tru technology ($3000) and such.... zed is no where near the best on the market but they are great amps for the money...

also for wiring, knukonceptz is great, now hear me on this, copper is copper....there not much difference between a $20 monster wire and a $100 jl wire... so just get a cheap amp wiring kit from knu and call it a day

finally, your new setup is more expensive....

$70 ascendant mids

$70 seas tweets (i would go with lpg 25nfa for $80...)

~$80 passive crossovers

$400 for zed draconia

$100 for 8" sealed

$720 before wiring and install....

but each to his own i guess... good luck man!

 

[Excelsius 10+ year member]

Leon, the sub and the speakers are from Ascendant. I'm getting the 8 inch Assassin. Chad said he had a box for that and could put it in.

I agree that he wants to sell, but he didn't insist on buying his speakers. He just said that I'd be wasting money on a brand name. Since he has a classical background, I trust him. I mean would he go to such lengths to make some petty $70 on a pair of speakers? It's not like he's making a fortune on it.

I'm not sure which tweeters. He chose them for me. I would like to hear more why you think his speakers are inferior. I have until Monday to cancel (will ship Monday). And what horror stories are there? Remember, I'm talking about high quality classical output and not rap. I don't know why Chad would lie to me, but all I need is evidence of Rainbows significant superiority to change my mind.

 

[acold7dusta 10+ year member]

im a lil late:crap: but my SLC's on my diamond D3 400.4 (bridged) sounds AMAZING with the gain at about 3/8. just a thought... diamond makes great products, and the D3 amps are prolly the sexiest looking amps ever made

 

[leonsv 10+ year member]

Leon, the sub and the speakers are from Ascendant. I'm getting the 8 inch Assassin. Chad said he had a box for that and could put it in.I agree that he wants to sell, but he didn't insist on buying his speakers. He just said that I'd be wasting money on a brand name. Since he has a classical background, I trust him. I mean would he go to such lengths to make some petty $70 on a pair of speakers? It's not like he's making a fortune on it.

I'm not sure which tweeters. He chose them for me. I would like to hear more why you think his speakers are inferior. I have until Monday to cancel (will ship Monday). And what horror stories are there? Remember, I'm talking about high quality classical output and not rap. I don't know why Chad would lie to me, but all I need is evidence of Rainbows significant superiority to change my mind.

ok, so the horror stories are basically that when they first came out, there was a high failure rate and tinsle slap... but i don't know if thats still true today...

also i didn't say that chad would lie to you, but imo rainbows are better and for about the same price....

also i didn't say that his speakers are inferior, but if it was to me, i would spend a bit more and get peerless exclusives or seas r18nx and such

finally, i can't prove anything, i can only give you my opinion...

and can you tell me if you are running these active or passive?

cause the speakers do not come with a crossover...

 

[Excelsius 10+ year member]

Leon, have you heard AA's recent models and compared them to Rainbows? I called them back, but didn't reach them. I left a message asking:

the exact model of the speakers

Whether the speakers are active and crossovers are included

The exact model of the tweeters.

Anything else I should ask?

He told me that he'd include the types of speakers that do not require elaborate tuning. Would that be a passive or active one. I know that in home theatre active speaker is much easier to "tune." When would I need a crossover?

 

[leonsv 10+ year member]

Leon, have you heard AA's recent models and compared them to Rainbows? I called them back, but didn't reach them. I left a message asking:
the exact model of the speakers

Whether the speakers are active and crossovers are included

The exact model of the tweeters.

Anything else I should ask?

He told me that he'd include the types of speakers that do not require elaborate tuning. Would that be a passive or active one. I know that in home theatre active speaker is much easier to "tune." When would I need a crossover?

the ascendants are just speakers, you would need a crossover to distribute different frequencies of sound to the woofer and tweeter. active means that you distribute the frequencies before the signal reaches the amp, and passive mean that you have a preset crossover point and the frequencies above are handled by the tweets and the frequencies below by the woofer...

either case you need to crossover

active crossover are usually in aftermarket headunits or equalizers

passive crossovers are little box thingy that connect to the speakers.

 

[Excelsius 10+ year member]

I am so frickin confused now.

Let's at least get the install kit out of the way. You never told me, but is this good enough?

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOL-AK44

I counted on the lower speaker price for getting the higher end amp. Now it seems I have to get the expensive speakers as well and go all the way. I'll call Chad and tell him I'm going with the Rainbow SLC 265. The difference is about $90. That **** 6spdcoupe only got back to me once saying that he'll sell one for $230. I still haven't heard from him.

The perfect thing to do would be to visit a store, take my own CD of Bach, and compare those suckers. But where can I do that in LA? If you find a website that compares them, let me know.