Need help with Active Crossover Setup - Will this work? SEE DIAGRAM I DREW OUT......

[txdog27 10+ year member]

So this will be the first time I have attempted a fully active Crossover and speakers set up..... I believe I have the basics and the general idea behind it right....... but I am unsure if the way I am running all of my rca's and the way I am splitting the signal so much will work..... I drew out a crude diagram of the way I thought I could hook up this setup......

IS THIS POSSIBLE TO DO IT THE WAY I DREW IT OUT???

ARE THERE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THE WAY I HAVE DONE IT???

ANY SUGGESTIONS AS TO HOW TO MAKE THIS BETTER OR FIX ANY THING ON IT??

ANY AND ALL HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED AS I AM AT A STANDSTILL ON MY INSTALL UNTIL I KNOW 100 PERCENT FOR SURE THAT THIS WILL WORK.......

Click to read more...

 

[Bettr n' Revrse 5,000+ posts]

Im gunna take a crack at that and say... No?

 

[subzero 5,000+ posts]

So this will be the first time I have attempted a fully active Crossover and speakers set up..... I believe I have the basics and the general idea behind it right....... but I am unsure if the way I am running all of my rca's and the way I am splitting the signal so much will work..... I drew out a crude diagram of the way I thought I could hook up this setup...... IS THIS POSSIBLE TO DO IT THE WAY I DREW IT OUT???

ARE THERE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THE WAY I HAVE DONE IT???

ANY SUGGESTIONS AS TO HOW TO MAKE THIS BETTER OR FIX ANY THING ON IT??

ANY AND ALL HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED AS I AM AT A STANDSTILL ON MY INSTALL UNTIL I KNOW 100 PERCENT FOR SURE THAT THIS WILL WORK.......

that is not correct.

your mixing it. the fronts need to be kept up front, the rears need to be kept in the rear.

 

[Bettr n' Revrse 5,000+ posts]

And why do you need 6.5 mids and 6.5 mid bass drivers?

 

[subzero 5,000+ posts]

http://www.audiocontrol.com/t34/21366/224389/System-Design-Applications/6-Channel-System-Diagram.html

 

[Joseph7195 10+ year member]

Just as a reference question, are you sing two 3Sixty.2's in order to get 8 channels of time alignment? I can see since you are running 5 different types of speakers and the 3sixty has six channels, you should be okay with running just one 3sixty. You mind me asking what your goals are with your system?

 

[subzero 5,000+ posts]

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/head-unit-classifieds/522324-os-autotek-fx-5a-crossover-%2460-shipped.html

This is what you need to get yo achive an active set up. This and the audio control xovers where designed to be fully active. THat 360 thing is not. it is a signal processor You could run one 360 to this xover and be good.

 

[matt_bennett05 10+ year member]

And also, correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this much rca cable call for a line driver?

 

[vaiboy 10+ year member]

That diagram is all wrong.

First, lose the y-splitters especially the splitters between the 3sixty and the amps, if it is split that way you will lose stereo separation. The splitters between the head unit and 3sixty are unnecessary, the 3sixty can create a six channel output from a 2 channel input.

Second, even with two 3sixties you don't have enough channels of time alignment to run all of that.

Third, I haven't played with a 3sixty personally, but I'm not sure the "sub" output is stereo, technically the outputs are labeled sub and center. If they are summed mono outputs and not left/right outputs, it will take four 3sixties to run everything you have diagrammed with stereo separation and time alignment.

Here is a diagram of what might work, but even this will be wrong if the sub/center outputs are summed mono.

View attachment 26527132

Personally, I would suggest cutting back a little, go with a 3way front stage and a pair of mids in the rear, it will sound much better.

 

[txdog27 10+ year member]

How would i be able to do this with just one 3sixty.2? That would be great and a hell of alot cheaper at $400 bucks a pop lol...... ok here is my proposed setup....correct me if i have something wrong please....

vehicle is a 2003 dodge ram quad cab

running two 1" tweeters in the front door panels in fiberglass pods behind side view mirrors *Image Dynamics 1" Tweeters from CTX65CS Comp Set

running two 1" tweeters in the rear 'C' pillars in fiberglass pods *Image Dynamics 1" Tweeters from CTX65CS Comp Set

running two 4" mid-range in the front 'A' pillars below the 'oh ****' handles *DLS 4" Performance C4 Mid-Range Drivers

running two 4" mid range in the rear 'C' panels below the tweeters in the same fiberglass pods *DLS 4" Performance C4 Mid-Range Drivers

Running two 6.5" mid-range in the front kick panels in fiberglass pods *Image Dynamics 6.5" Mid Woofers from CTX65CS Comp Set

Running two 6.5" mid-range in the rear doors factory location fiberglassed *Image Dynamics 6.5" Mid Woofers from CTX65CS Comp Set

Running two 6.5" mid bass drivers in the front doors factory location in angled fiberglass pods *CDT Audio M6+ 6.5" Mid Bass Drivers

Running a 15" DVC Subwoofer in a custom middle console enclosure (dash to rear seat) *Fi Audio 15" Custom BTL DVC2

I am gonna be using a Avic-Z130BT headunit and I havent really gotten into matching amps but i'll buy whatever i need to.

Is this speaker setup gonna yield me a proper staging and sound quality payoff? Anything i should change or take out or add?

I am going to use use the 3sixty.2 line one way or another.....cant get away from the pure awesomeness of controlling the setup fully with my bluetooth palm device or netbook. And i saw that someone said that the 3sixty.2 units are not active.......how are they not when i can set all of the crossover points individually along with everything else they can do?

Also, if i am NOT able to run this many speakers off of one or even two 3sixty.2 units......how in the world did Steve over at SMD run the amount of speakers he did in his tahoe off of two of these units? He has a video where he is running the exact same components setup i.e 1" tweets, 4" mids, 6.5" mids, 8" midbass, and 15" subs and he has individual control over each speaker with just two of these units. He had the tweets, 4"s, and 6.5"s on one unit and the 8"s and 15"s on another unit.

and yes i posted on the SMD forum begging for a diagram of how he accomplished that which he showed in the demo videos, but i have yet to receive a reply back.

So all that said how do I do this correctly? lol

 

[txdog27 10+ year member]

and i should also mention that YES the sub output is a mono on the 3sixty.2 as well as the center output.....i missed that......****!!! but Steve did it......that gives me hope lol

also i saw that someone said something like 'why so many speakers?'........well i have plans for a complete blow-thru from the bed to the cab on this truck with four 15" Fi BTLs so i am just trying to make sure i have enough high and mid output to keep up with that in the near future when i do it.

 

[vaiboy 10+ year member]

I don't really pay attention to SMd, but I can assume he combined the crossovers in the 3sixties with the crossovers in the amps to get the desired frequencies. That defeats the purpose of the time alignment though, like using splitters, if the only thing you care about is getting the proper frequencies to the proper speakers, save some money and buy a couple of 3-way crossovers. If you want proper staging from that clusterfuck of speakers you are going to need 12-14 channels with functional time alignment, proper stereo separation, and the proper crossover frequencies. Each 3sixty.2 only gives you 4 channels that would be usable for what you are trying to do.

My advice is make up your mind what you really want, quantity or quality.

If your are dead set on a 4-way front stage and using 3sixty.2s, here's another more realistic diagram, that might actually sound good. The 6.5" midrange in the kickpods will not have T/A this way but if you run the tweeters to high pass above 5K you can use T/A on the mid. There is still some flexability in the final setup.

View attachment 26527133

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

no good sound stage will come from your plans - too many drivers going in. you only need one pair of midrange speakers behind you - delayed and filtered for rear fill.

I mostly agree with the image in the previous post using a 4-way front stage. use that as your guide. but you need T/A on the front midrange. you need T/A on the front midbass. you want T/A on the rear fill, but you can achieve smilar results with placement and a bandpass crossover. you don't need T/A on the tweeter if the xover point is above 4khz (how much above depends on the slope). the issue with a 6.5" mid playing to 4kHz is beaming which affects the sound stage. that's why I have a 4" mid in my kick instead of a 6.5" mid.

you should be able to use a 3sixty.2 sub out for the midbass driver. you'll low pass it around 200Hz anyway. you may need to use a high pass in the amplifier to achieve a bandpass output though. but that's easy to get in an amp.

what frequency ranges do you want each driver to cover? that is the important question you must first answer. available airspace plays a role, as does driver diameter.

a 4-way suffers from a crossover point in the middle of the vocal range. this plays havoc with a sound stage. ideally, you want you kick mids to play from about 200Hz - 4kHz (and they need adequate airspace). above 4kHz to your apillar tweeters (for stage height). below 200Hz to the door midbass (which need a fully sealed and deadened door cavity).

a 3-way front with rear midrange (no tweeters) and a sub is a simple recipe for a nice system with a good sound stage. less drivers lets you buy nicer drivers.

you don't even need 4" in the apillars, just well placed tweeters and kick mids can give you a good sound stage. getting 4" mids to work up in the dash is very difficult - mostly due to airspace issues and that they are so close to you. your PLD are poor with dash speakers.

using two 3Sixty.2 is necessary to have enough channels to filter/delay.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

without drawing it, here's what i would do for a 4-way front:

3Sixty.2 (1)

Front - 1" tweeters front

Rear - 4" midrange front

Sub - 6.5 midbass front

3.Sixty.2 (2)

Front - 6.5" midrange front

Rear - 4" midrange rear

Sub - 15" sub

it would be nice if the HU sub out was able to feed the 3.Sixty sub in. so you retain dash sub level control.

without drawing it, here's what i would do for a 3-way front:

3Sixty.2 (1) Fed from Front HU Output

Front - 1" tweeters front

Rear - 4" midrange front

Sub - 6.5 midbass front

3.Sixty.2 (2) Fed from Rear and Sub HU Out

Front - 4" midrange rear

Rear - N/A

Sub - 15" sub

it would be nice if the HU sub out was able to feed the 3.Sixty sub in. so you retain dash sub level control.

 

[txdog27 10+ year member]

no good sound stage will come from your plans - too many drivers going in. you only need one pair of midrange speakers behind you - delayed and filtered for rear fill.
I mostly agree with the image in the previous post using a 4-way front stage. use that as your guide. but you need T/A on the front midrange. you need T/A on the front midbass. you want T/A on the rear fill, but you can achieve smilar results with placement and a bandpass crossover. you don't need T/A on the tweeter if the xover point is above 4khz (how much above depends on the slope). the issue with a 6.5" mid playing to 4kHz is beaming which affects the sound stage. that's why I have a 4" mid in my kick instead of a 6.5" mid.

you should be able to use a 3sixty.2 sub out for the midbass driver. you'll low pass it around 200Hz anyway. you may need to use a high pass in the amplifier to achieve a bandpass output though. but that's easy to get in an amp.

what frequency ranges do you want each driver to cover? that is the important question you must first answer. available airspace plays a role, as does driver diameter.

a 4-way suffers from a crossover point in the middle of the vocal range. this plays havoc with a sound stage. ideally, you want you kick mids to play from about 200Hz - 4kHz (and they need adequate airspace). above 4kHz to your apillar tweeters (for stage height). below 200Hz to the door midbass (which need a fully sealed and deadened door cavity).

a 3-way front with rear midrange (no tweeters) and a sub is a simple recipe for a nice system with a good sound stage. less drivers lets you buy nicer drivers.

you don't even need 4" in the apillars, just well placed tweeters and kick mids can give you a good sound stage. getting 4" mids to work up in the dash is very difficult - mostly due to airspace issues and that they are so close to you. your PLD are poor with dash speakers.

using two 3Sixty.2 is necessary to have enough channels to filter/delay.

no good sound stage will come from your plans - too many drivers going in. you only need one pair of midrange speakers behind you - delayed and filtered for rear fill.
I mostly agree with the image in the previous post using a 4-way front stage. use that as your guide. but you need T/A on the front midrange. you need T/A on the front midbass. you want T/A on the rear fill, but you can achieve smilar results with placement and a bandpass crossover. you don't need T/A on the tweeter if the xover point is above 4khz (how much above depends on the slope). the issue with a 6.5" mid playing to 4kHz is beaming which affects the sound stage. that's why I have a 4" mid in my kick instead of a 6.5" mid.

you should be able to use a 3sixty.2 sub out for the midbass driver. you'll low pass it around 200Hz anyway. you may need to use a high pass in the amplifier to achieve a bandpass output though. but that's easy to get in an amp.

what frequency ranges do you want each driver to cover? that is the important question you must first answer. available airspace plays a role, as does driver diameter.

a 4-way suffers from a crossover point in the middle of the vocal range. this plays havoc with a sound stage. ideally, you want you kick mids to play from about 200Hz - 4kHz (and they need adequate airspace). above 4kHz to your apillar tweeters (for stage height). below 200Hz to the door midbass (which need a fully sealed and deadened door cavity).

a 3-way front with rear midrange (no tweeters) and a sub is a simple recipe for a nice system with a good sound stage. less drivers lets you buy nicer drivers.

you don't even need 4" in the apillars, just well placed tweeters and kick mids can give you a good sound stage. getting 4" mids to work up in the dash is very difficult - mostly due to airspace issues and that they are so close to you. your PLD are poor with dash speakers.

using two 3Sixty.2 is necessary to have enough channels to filter/delay.

great great great advice thank you very much so putting tweets and 4" mids in the rear is a bad idea can you explain why I want to understand it and what exactly is 'beaming' that you said the 6 1/2 mids do and why are 4" mids in the a pillars bad and what is PLD

THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT AND CORRECTIONS