Multiple speakers, or 1 pair? Help me.

[KTMrida4life 10+ year member]

Right now.. Im running a pair of Polk DB6501 components up front and no rears. Theyre getting 125W each.

Sub stage is 3 SA 8s on about 2000W. Im looking to upgrade within the next month or two to 4 SA 10s on 3000W. Much louder, double the cone area and at least 35% more power as I might have my SAZ 3k at .5.

Something is lacking from my polks. The highs are bright, a little too harsh at times, they distort at high volumes on certain freqs and my mids seem to do the same thing. There is also no mid bass from the mids, it is pathetic. I also wouldnt mind it being a tad louder.

So Im looking to upgrade my front stage as well.. heres my options, and what I want advice on.

1- I have found another set of door panels for my car that I think I can modify and glass to fit 2 6.5" in each door. Only worry I have is clearance, but I think it is there. I could also get an extra pair of a-pillars, and modify them to fit 2 tweets/supertweets in each a pillar.. or possibly spheres that I can aim and adjust. I may or may not add rear fill speakers, more than likely not.

or

2- Buy a nicer set of front speakers like some HATs or Focals and put my polks in the rear. This would give me some rear fill, and a better sounding front stage.. but I still would be lacking the volume I am looking for. I wouldnt be able to run supertweets either... which means even less volume and less highs.

Whats everyones opinion? Need to make a decision soon, Ive been searching for weeks and finally found a pair of door panels from another 240sx that I can modify to my liking. If you cant tell, Im leaning towards the multiple speaker front stage route.

Help meee

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[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

You only gain 3dB by adding a second identical speaker with the same power. Buying speakers that are more efficient will give you more output. I would consider dual midbass, but I would low pass them around 250Hz so I didn't get phase interference due to the separation. As a result. A dedicated midrange for a 3-way front stage is needed. That can help or hurt your goals.

I vote buying a better 2-way comp set. Something with much higher sensivity. Midbass requires airtight seals and adequate driver xmax.

 

[KTMrida4life 10+ year member]

You only gain 3dB by adding a second identical speaker with the same power. Buying speakers that are more efficient will give you more output. I would consider dual midbass, but I would low pass them around 250Hz so I didn't get phase interference due to the separation. As a result. A dedicated midrange for a 3-way front stage is needed. That can help or hurt your goals.
I vote buying a better 2-way comp set. Something with much higher sensivity. Midbass requires airtight seals and adequate driver xmax.

Double the cone area = only 3db more?

Airtight seals.. I can seal off my doors like Ive seen others do on here.

I need to find someone with a decent sized soundboard I can listen to.. I need to hear other sets of quality speakers at loud volumes.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

Double cone area doesn't matter, not a useful metric since putting two speakers in the same airspace can result in a loss of excursion as they fight each other.

If you have dentical speakers playing the same signal and receiving the same power: you will measure sound pressure level of both combined, which is 3dB more than one. Logarithmic math. 80dB + 80dB = 83dB. Assuming they are the same signal and are in-phase.

 

[KTMrida4life 10+ year member]

Double cone area doesn't matter, not a useful metric since putting two speakers in the same airspace can result in a loss of excursion as they fight each other.
If you have dentical speakers playing the same signal and receiving the same power: you will measure sound pressure level of both combined, which is 3dB more than one. Logarithmic math. 80dB + 80dB = 83dB. Assuming they are the same signal and are in-phase.

Okay.

What component sets would you recommend?

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

look for 93dB @1W/1M

 

[KTMrida4life 10+ year member]

look for 93dB @1W/1M

Is it really that simple if I want loud?

My polks are 92db sensitivity.. so they should be loud on 125W.. but theyre not. Not as loud as I want anyway.

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

if you have not sealed the doors yet do so makes a big difference and as for the tweeters try reversing the polarity on them, seems to help with bright tweeters

and the kenwood is probably only putting out 90-100w so u may be clipping the signal at higher volumes. but it still should be plenty power. my memphis get overbearingly loud on 80 per side and i have to turn the amp down running them biamped with 80 per tweeter and mid

 

[KTMrida4life 10+ year member]

if you have not sealed the doors yet do so makes a big difference and as for the tweeters try reversing the polarity on them, seems to help with bright tweeters
and the kenwood is probably only putting out 90-100w so u may be clipping the signal at higher volumes. but it still should be plenty power. my memphis get overbearingly loud on 80 per side and i have to turn the amp down running them biamped with 80 per tweeter and mid

I will for sure do so soon.

Yeah I know, its the last thing Kenwood in my whole system.

I think I may get a set of Focal 165VBs.. does anyone have any experience with them?? I would also get a SAX 100.4 amp and ditch my Kenwood.

 

[disturbed471985 5,000+ posts]

I went from a single mid/tweets setup to a dual mid dual tweet setup and its night and day in output. Will take some time to get them to sound right so a good eq is a must as well as an abudance of slope and crossover selections. My doors are not air tight as most cars you cant do this too as my car drains water threw channels inside the door so sealing them would result in very water filled doors.

BTW the sax is a great amp just wish it did more power.. 175x4@2ohm is just not enough for me but the quality was the selling point. Well that and I cant afford a 200.4...

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

Is it really that simple if I want loud?
My polks are 92db sensitivity.. so they should be loud on 125W.. but theyre not. Not as loud as I want anyway.

given their specs on the other speakers, i suspect they rate sensitivity at 2.83V/1m or another method. I am wary of any specs that don't state test conditions. Sensitivity must have units with it, or it's not a useful spec. 2.83V/1m will yield about 3dB more output than 1W/1m

the manual is poorly written - manuals like this give me a clue into who is actually designing the stuff (not US)

http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/manuals/home/Polknew_DB_CoaxManual.pdf

sealed doors is important.

having tweeters on-axis is also important. talk about a night and day difference in output. how are the tweeters aimed/located now?

Focal has a nice line of speakers.

"bright" tweeters are usually suffering from phase interference - where they overlap the midrange driver. that is why winky suggests swapping phase.

 

[KTMrida4life 10+ year member]

given their specs on the other speakers, i suspect they rate sensitivity at 2.83V/1m or another method. I am wary of any specs that don't state test conditions. Sensitivity must have units with it, or it's not a useful spec. 2.83V/1m will yield about 3dB more output than 1W/1mthe manual is poorly written - manuals like this give me a clue into who is actually designing the stuff (not US)

http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/manuals/home/Polknew_DB_CoaxManual.pdf

sealed doors is important.

having tweeters on-axis is also important. talk about a night and day difference in output. how are the tweeters aimed/located now?

Focal has a nice line of speakers.

"bright" tweeters are usually suffering from phase interference - where they overlap the midrange driver. that is why winky suggests swapping phase.

They are on the a-pillars under the factory grills in the factory locations. They are aiming downwards a bit, and aiming almost directly towards me.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q22/Blacknight94/240sx%20audio/100_1438.jpg

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

given their specs on the other speakers, i suspect they rate sensitivity at 2.83V/1m or another method. I am wary of any specs that don't state test conditions. Sensitivity must have units with it, or it's not a useful spec. 2.83V/1m will yield about 3dB more output than 1W/1mthe manual is poorly written - manuals like this give me a clue into who is actually designing the stuff (not US)

http://www.polkaudio.com/downloads/manuals/home/Polknew_DB_CoaxManual.pdf

sealed doors is important.

having tweeters on-axis is also important. talk about a night and day difference in output. how are the tweeters aimed/located now?

Focal has a nice line of speakers.

"bright" tweeters are usually suffering from phase interference - where they overlap the midrange driver. that is why winky suggests swapping phase.

You seem to have a lot of scientific theory, but have you ever built a loud front stage? Sensitivity really doesn't matter if he has enough power for the speakers and 2 sets of comps will be louder then 1 set 99% of the time.

Ring radiators need to be on-axis, most other tweeters don't need to be as you will lose little to no output. Aimed across or firing off the windshield is fine.

OP if you're not afraid to run active then something like the AQ mid and supertweeter would be night and day louder then what you have now. Same with the Crescendo PA mids that are now available. 2 PA mids/single supertweeter per side should be more then enough to keep up with the bass you have.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

Loud front stage? Uh, yes. For over 15 years I have been building sound systems in cars, including installation and testing. I also design and test professional sound reinforcement systems. and I design and install home audio systems.

Having more power is great, along with high power handling, and high sensitivity. why waste power?

IMO, if you want to be loud, buying cheap inefficient car audio speakers is the wrong way to do it.

 

[jirehn 10+ year member]

For me I think I pair is enough, It they are too many more power will be needing.