Making a box

[Franklinnn 10+ year member]

So there is this guy i met through work, and he was making stands for some Christmas trees and I noticed the wood he used was a very nice looking partical board and out of curiosity i asked if he ever made an enclosure for subs, and he has //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif So we were talking and said it cost about 20$ worth of materials to make the box then carpeting or whatever sounds good.

So for fairly cheap and almost all power tools up for use what things should i be looking for? should i go with sealed or ported?

my deck has 3 independent RCA outputs so i was thinking of this:

1. 2- 10" subs

2. 1- 12" subs

3. 2- components or tweeters (or 6x9's)

each with their own amp for whatever they should be rated for.

I have zero experience with adding too much things, but maybe more 6x9's is overkill and just get nice ones for the rear dash? but thinking i need more sound than bass so get some other speakers too for overall volume as well as the bass.

Just trying to learn how i can make all aspects loud without comprising quality at any volume

Hell, maybe even 2 10's with a jumbo 15" and tweeters? so many possibility and not enough experience. i love car audio and lack the experience but would love to work around this a lot more without completely breaking bank. but would love a 3000+ watt system with all the nice batts and HO alts and screw the trunk space, its mine for the system //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Click to read more...

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

my deck has 3 independent RCA outputs so i was thinking of this:

1. 2- 10" subs

2. 1- 12" subs

3. 2- components or tweeters (or 6x9's)

Wow.

- RCA outputs are for amplifiers, not speakers.

- There's no reason to have 10" and 12" subs.

- Component systems include tweeters.

 

[soundstreamer 10+ year member]

Don't get in too big of a rush picking out your stereo system.

Stick around for awhile and read the forums... learn more about what you need to make your ride sound the way you want, learn the terminology of the car audio world, and learn the do's and don'ts of stereos. Also take your time picking out equipment and shop wisely.... You'll be flaming noobs in no time //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Franklinnn 10+ year member]

Don't get in too big of a rush picking out your stereo system.
Stick around for awhile and read the forums... learn more about what you need to make your ride sound the way you want, learn the terminology of the car audio world, and learn the do's and don'ts of stereos. Also take your time picking out equipment and shop wisely.... You'll be flaming noobs in no time //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Im trying to do my best so i can stick around and learn things but since i didnt join just to watch i do have to ask some stupid questions //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Living where i do (hell anywhere) you will see people adding random audio things in their car and throwing it in as fast as they can afford to because the more things you can put into your car the better it sounds, no matter what it is //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

there are billion of combinations to add and upgrade and a lot are right, but a ton are wrong as well. I hope i dont get flamed to death in the process but on a scale of 1-10 i would say im a 4 or 5 of over car audio knowledge. I have installed 4 decks 2 amps+subs and soon to be 1 big 3 and even added speakers to the back dash of my old car and wired it. So im at the point i could go around saying i know it all, but obviously dont and be another shitty car audio guy; however, thats not for me! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

Wow.
- RCA outputs are for amplifiers, not speakers.

- There's no reason to have 10" and 12" subs.

- Component systems include tweeters.

I can make some sense of it,

- I would need to run the RCA's to amps and tune them accordingly - then to the speakers

- 10's hit faster and physically don't move as much air, 12's are slower and move more air so the 12 could be set to hit the lower frequency while the 10's the higher ones? from my understanding that made sense to me

- Yes, i just dont know if any other speakers would be needed so its not too much bass

 

[406er 10+ year member]

- 10's hit faster and physically don't move as much air, 12's are slower and move more air so the 12 could be set to hit the lower frequency while the 10's the higher ones? from my understanding that made sense to me

back to the drawing board my friend. these old wives tales are fauls. theres lot more then the size of the sub goes into determining its out put and sound characteristics. theres 10s out there that can move more air then 15, and theres 10s out there that can hit lower then a 15. some of the best sounding shit ive hurd have been 12 and 15s soo, there goes your theroy. as stated above, stick around, read. we can help you pick out gear, with your budget in mind. and dont put replace the rear speakers with a 6X9 compo set. dont ya think it would be better to have new speakers up front VS the rear? unless you drive backwards all the time!

 

[cshaw 10+ year member]

young grass hoper you are

 

[Franklinnn 10+ year member]

back to the drawing board my friend. these old wives tales are fauls. theres lot more then the size of the sub goes into determining its out put and sound characteristics. theres 10s out there that can move more air then 15, and theres 10s out there that can hit lower then a 15. some of the best sounding shit ive hurd have been 12 and 15s soo, there goes your theroy. as stated above, stick around, read. we can help you pick out gear, with your budget in mind. and dont put replace the rear speakers with a 6X9 compo set. dont ya think it would be better to have new speakers up front VS the rear? unless you drive backwards all the time!

Thanks for the clarification!

After i get my big 3 done, i will see where my system sounds from there, then maybe go with a nice 6.5" pair for my doors, and maybe the 1" tweeters that are wired with them.

That is one thing ill probably need some help with getting a small amp for 2 doors and how to wire it properly //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[misfit138 5,000+ posts]

- 10's hit faster and physically don't move as much air, 12's are slower and move more air

false

 

[plugitin 5,000+ posts]

ugh...

 

[GAM3OVR 5,000+ posts]

Im trying to do my best so i can stick around and learn things but since i didnt join just to watch i do have to ask some stupid questions //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Living where i do (hell anywhere) you will see people adding random audio things in their car and throwing it in as fast as they can afford to because the more things you can put into your car the better it sounds, no matter what it is //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

there are billion of combinations to add and upgrade and a lot are right, but a ton are wrong as well. I hope i dont get flamed to death in the process but on a scale of 1-10 i would say im a 4 or 5 of over car audio knowledge. I have installed 4 decks 2 amps+subs and soon to be 1 big 3 and even added speakers to the back dash of my old car and wired it. So im at the point i could go around saying i know it all, but obviously dont and be another shitty car audio guy; however, thats not for me! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

I can make some sense of it,

- I would need to run the RCA's to amps and tune them accordingly - then to the speakers

- 10's hit faster and physically don't move as much air, 12's are slower and move more air so the 12 could be set to hit the lower frequency while the 10's the higher ones? from my understanding that made sense to me

- Yes, i just dont know if any other speakers would be needed so its not too much bass

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

Might as well go with 4" tang band subs then, cuz they'll be moving like super fast and shit

 

[7ender 10+ year member]

"I hope i dont get flamed to death in the process but on a scale of 1-10 i would say im a 4 or 5 of over car audio knowledge"

I'd say you're a 1.

But on a serious note, like everyone said just read around here and find out what some good stuff is.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

So there is this guy i met through work, and he was making stands for some Christmas trees and I noticed the wood he used was a very nice looking partical board and out of curiosity i asked if he ever made an enclosure for subs, and he has //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif So we were talking and said it cost about 20$ worth of materials to make the box then carpeting or whatever sounds good.
So for fairly cheap and almost all power tools up for use what things should i be looking for? should i go with sealed or ported?

my deck has 3 independent RCA outputs so i was thinking of this:

1. 2- 10" subs

2. 1- 12" subs

3. 2- components or tweeters (or 6x9's)

each with their own amp for whatever they should be rated for.

I have zero experience with adding too much things, but maybe more 6x9's is overkill and just get nice ones for the rear dash? but thinking i need more sound than bass so get some other speakers too for overall volume as well as the bass.

Just trying to learn how i can make all aspects loud without comprising quality at any volume

Hell, maybe even 2 10's with a jumbo 15" and tweeters? so many possibility and not enough experience. i love car audio and lack the experience but would love to work around this a lot more without completely breaking bank. but would love a 3000+ watt system with all the nice batts and HO alts and screw the trunk space, its mine for the system //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Welcome! Hopefully you'll enjoy your stay. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

I'll just run down your post and make my comments as necessary:

First of all, I think you're being a bit too ambitious! You do not need subwoofers of different sizes, nor should you ever employ them as part of the same system. The reason is because as you vary a speaker's size, it's characteristics change. As stated in a post in another thread, the main culprit is what is known as phase. If your speakers are in phase, then they will all be working together in harmony to give you additive bass output. Unfortunately, different sizes of speakers have different phase responses, and as such, the likelihood that everything will work together is so low that it'd be a waste of money to try. So the rule of thumb is: ALWAYS use the same size, and same model subwoofers in any low frequency application.

Next, you're confusing your speaker names too. A tweeter is a speaker that plays frequencies usually from 3khz all the way up to 20-30khz depending on the model. Although human hearing effectively stops at 20khz, many manufacturers believe that giving a bandwidth above the audible range makes for a better sound. I can't say one way or the other, so as long as it says up to 20khz, you're good. A midrange is the speaker that plays from around 3khz down to about 750-500hz. This is for your voices which I'm sure you know. Next up is a woofer, which tackles everything from about 1500-150hz.

Oftentimes it is not possible to use both a woofer and a midrange, so what's employed is known as a mid-woofer, which is what you will see in any 2-way design. Finally, your subwoofer tackles everything from 150 all the way down to 1hz. There is very little information in this range that can easily be discerned, so for sound quality purposes, you want to look for good transient response which is how well the speaker can change in respond to input. The higher harmonics will be handled by the mid/woofer and as such, the subwoofer is just to add depth to the existing sound. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

The components that you speak of are actually a set of a tweeter and a mid-woofer, or a tweeter, mid and a woofer. These two are called a two-way and 3-way setup respectively. Most often in cars you will find a 2-way setup due to space restrictions. 3-way installs are almost exclusively reserved for fully custom installations. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

6x9s are merely a tweeter and a woofer together as the same speaker which is called a coaxial. They are simply decent at reproducing sound as coaxial speakers have inherent flaws which are a bit too technical to get into. However, for just adding sound to the car, 6x9s and other coaxial speakers are the way to go.

Next up, your thoughts on size vs. transient quality. I'll try not to get too technical here, but I think it's valuable information that people should know so that this misconception does not keep spreading through newcomers like a wildfire. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

I'll cover that in its own post so that it doesn't get too lengthy in this one //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

Alrighty, on to part two: transient quality. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

The best way to get into this is to briefly describe how a loudspeaker actually works. As you know, you have a positive and negative input which is connected to your amplifier which is connected to source material. When that signal goes into the positive and out the negative, a few things happen. First of all, if you don't like mathematics then I apologize, but it's important to understand. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Now, there's something known as Faraday's law, which states that the change in the magnetic flux of a coil is equal to the voltage across it. This is very important for us, as speakers work on an electrical property called inductance. What happens is that when you run a current through a wire, a magnetic field is created that surrounds the wire. More importantly for us, when you take said wire and create a coil out of it, then you get what is called an inductor. Inductance is the property where when a current is flowing through a circuit, if you change that current, then the circuit will create a voltage that opposes that change. Now, your speaker has a voice coil which is simply an inductor wound on a piece of metal called a former. When you run a current through the voice coil, it creates a magnetic field around it, and when you consider the strength of the extent of the magnetic field, then it's what is called magnetic flux. Now, if we go back to our faraday's law, we can see that the higher the voltage that we put across that coil, the larger corresponding magnetic flux. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/yumyum.gif.0556df42231b304b9c995aefd13928a8.gif

As you likely know, magnets have a positive and negative polarity, and the same is true for coils with current running through them. The polarity, however, depends on whether the input is positive or negative. So, if you run a song's signal through that coil, you'll get rapidly changing positive and negative polarities. This is beneficial for us because your speaker has a large magnet attached to it which is appropriately called the motor. The magnet, on the other hand, can NOT change polarity. It is fixed and will always have the same polarity. Again, as you likely know, opposites attract and similar repels. Since your magnet has a constant polarity, and your voice coil is acting as an inductor and as the polarity of the magnetic field created by it changes from positive to negative, it gets easy to see that if you are going from positive to negative on a part that can move, and have a fixed polarity on another object, that means that the motor will therefore attract and repel the voice coil. That, is why your speaker moves: the changing magnetic field of the voice coil being attracted or repelled by the fixed magnet on the bottom of the speaker. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

Now that the fundamental physics are out of the way, you're probably wondering why this has anything to do with how "quick" a speaker is? Well, if you stop and think about what I've said so far, if your speaker can change directions quickly as the signal passes through it, then it's going to be "quick". If not, then it will be "slow". How does that in any way have anything to do with the size of the cone? Therefore, you can see that how quickly a speaker can move is simply a function of the current running through it. If you take two speakers of the same make, but one is a 10" and the other is a 15", and assume that the only difference between the two is the moving mass, then how could that possibly affect how quickly the speaker responds? That change in mass is not at all going to affect how quickly the speaker can change directions! Consequently, if you make your motor larger, so that it has a larger magnetic field (called the B field), then you can increase the force with which the speaker can drive in and out. Also, if you increase the size of the inductor (most commonly done by length, although changes in diameter are possible as well), you can therefore also increase the amount of force. Finally, if you increase BOTH, then you can increase what is known as one of the fundamental parameters of all loudspeakers, called BL, which guess what: stands for the B-field, or the magnetic field, multiplied by the Length of the voice coil, which when multiplied with one another (B*L) is the parameter for the force that the motor can supply to the cone. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

So, let's put it all together now, shall we? When we feed a current into the voice coil, it will attract and repel the fixed magnet which gives the speaker the movement. How QUICKLY it does this is due to mainly one thing: the inductance of the coil, as when you make it larger, the inductance goes up. So wait, doesn't that mean that smaller speakers which have smaller voice coils can respond more quickly? YES, it indeed does, which is why you don't see tweeters or midranges very often with incredibly large voice coils. The thing that you gain from increasing the size of your voice coil is power handling, or how much current you can feed into the voice coil before it burns to a crisp. So, you have to balance transient ability with power handling to make the ideal loudspeaker. Since we're talking about subwoofers, and subwoofers of the same make and same size differ ONLY by the size of the cone, not the size of the motor or the voice coil, then there is no way that a larger cone of the same make will be "slower" than one that is smaller.

Whew, hope that wasn't too technical, but if it helps at least one person understand why cone size does not affect its sound quality, then I feel I will have succeeded. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

-Dave

 

[BrownVanMan 10+ year member]

Alrighty, on to part two: transient quality. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
The best way to get into this is to briefly describe how a loudspeaker actually works. As you know, you have a positive and negative input which is connected to your amplifier which is connected to source material. When that signal goes into the positive and out the negative, a few things happen. First of all, if you don't like mathematics then I apologize, but it's important to understand. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Now, there's something known as Faraday's law, which states that the change in the magnetic flux of a coil is equal to the voltage across it. This is very important for us, as speakers work on an electrical property called inductance. What happens is that when you run a current through a wire, a magnetic field is created that surrounds the wire. More importantly for us, when you take said wire and create a coil out of it, then you get what is called an inductor. Inductance is the property where when a current is flowing through a circuit, if you change that current, then the circuit will create a voltage that opposes that change. Now, your speaker has a voice coil which is simply an inductor wound on a piece of metal called a former. When you run a current through the voice coil, it creates a magnetic field around it, and when you consider the strength of the extent of the magnetic field, then it's what is called magnetic flux. Now, if we go back to our faraday's law, we can see that the higher the voltage that we put across that coil, the larger corresponding magnetic flux. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/yumyum.gif.0556df42231b304b9c995aefd13928a8.gif

As you likely know, magnets have a positive and negative polarity, and the same is true for coils with current running through them. The polarity, however, depends on whether the input is positive or negative. So, if you run a song's signal through that coil, you'll get rapidly changing positive and negative polarities. This is beneficial for us because your speaker has a large magnet attached to it which is appropriately called the motor. The magnet, on the other hand, can NOT change polarity. It is fixed and will always have the same polarity. Again, as you likely know, opposites attract and similar repels. Since your magnet has a constant polarity, and your voice coil is acting as an inductor and as the polarity of the magnetic field created by it changes from positive to negative, it gets easy to see that if you are going from positive to negative on a part that can move, and have a fixed polarity on another object, that means that the motor will therefore attract and repel the voice coil. That, is why your speaker moves: the changing magnetic field of the voice coil being attracted or repelled by the fixed magnet on the bottom of the speaker. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif

Now that the fundamental physics are out of the way, you're probably wondering why this has anything to do with how "quick" a speaker is? Well, if you stop and think about what I've said so far, if your speaker can change directions quickly as the signal passes through it, then it's going to be "quick". If not, then it will be "slow". How does that in any way have anything to do with the size of the cone? Therefore, you can see that how quickly a speaker can move is simply a function of the current running through it. If you take two speakers of the same make, but one is a 10" and the other is a 15", and assume that the only difference between the two is the moving mass, then how could that possibly affect how quickly the speaker responds? That change in mass is not at all going to affect how quickly the speaker can change directions! Consequently, if you make your motor larger, so that it has a larger magnetic field (called the B field), then you can increase the force with which the speaker can drive in and out. Also, if you increase the size of the inductor (most commonly done by length, although changes in diameter are possible as well), you can therefore also increase the amount of force. Finally, if you increase BOTH, then you can increase what is known as one of the fundamental parameters of all loudspeakers, called BL, which guess what: stands for the B-field, or the magnetic field, multiplied by the Length of the voice coil, which when multiplied with one another (B*L) is the parameter for the force that the motor can supply to the cone. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

So, let's put it all together now, shall we? When we feed a current into the voice coil, it will attract and repel the fixed magnet which gives the speaker the movement. How QUICKLY it does this is due to mainly one thing: the inductance of the coil, as when you make it larger, the inductance goes up. So wait, doesn't that mean that smaller speakers which have smaller voice coils can respond more quickly? YES, it indeed does, which is why you don't see tweeters or midranges very often with incredibly large voice coils. The thing that you gain from increasing the size of your voice coil is power handling, or how much current you can feed into the voice coil before it burns to a crisp. So, you have to balance transient ability with power handling to make the ideal loudspeaker. Since we're talking about subwoofers, and subwoofers of the same make and same size differ ONLY by the size of the cone, not the size of the motor or the voice coil, then there is no way that a larger cone of the same make will be "slower" than one that is smaller.

Whew, hope that wasn't too technical, but if it helps at least one person understand why cone size does not affect its sound quality, then I feel I will have succeeded. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

-Dave

da truf

 

[Immociide 10+ year member]

Alrighty, on to part two: transient quality. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gifWhew, hope that wasn't too technical, but if it helps at least one person understand why cone size does not affect its sound quality, then I feel I will have succeeded. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

-Dave

looks like you just succeeded Even booked marked for future reference.