Low bass output and settings

[pegasis50 10+ year member]

I have 2 Rockford P3d412s running off an Alpine PDX 1.1000 amp.

I do not have the "hit", or overall bass response that I want.

These are in an 08 Honda Civic SI coupe.

On certain songs (baby got back, cheryl crows soak up the sun) they hit awesome. Most of the time they do not and are weak. Gain is maxed out and should not be based on my 4 v preout.

I have a radio based EQ (Alpine 9887, +- 6db). I feel like this may not be able to boost the frequencies I need enough to hit hard on some songs. I am used to a +-12 DB EQ.

Since on some tracks the speakers sound great, I can only assume its the lack of reproduction/boosting of the notes that is at fault.(which could be recording quality as well)

That being said, how much boost is enough, and how do you dial in the lower frequencies and bass boost (if equipped) to get optimum, clean sound? I assume these adjustments are not related to gain, but can cause a distortion related sound issue just as an improperly adjusted gain can.

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[mazzasec 5,000+ posts]

I have 2 Rockford P3d412s running off an Alpine PDX 1.1000 amp.
I do not have the "hit", or overall bass response that I want.

These are in an 08 Honda Civic SI coupe.

On certain songs (baby got back, cheryl crows soak up the sun) they hit awesome. Most of the time they do not and are weak. Gain is maxed out and should not be based on my 4 v preout.

I have a radio based EQ (Alpine 9887, +- 6db). I feel like this may not be able to boost the frequencies I need enough to hit hard on some songs. I am used to a +-12 DB EQ.

Since on some tracks the speakers sound great, I can only assume its the lack of reproduction/boosting of the notes that is at fault.(which could be recording quality as well)

That being said, how much boost is enough, and how do you dial in the lower frequencies and bass boost (if equipped) to get optimum, clean sound? I assume these adjustments are not related to gain, but can cause a distortion related sound issue just as an improperly adjusted gain can.

Let the hate begin

 

[endofdays89 5,000+ posts]

because you are listening to sheryl crowe. Turn up the lows on the head unit, that is all i can say.

 

[1rockford1 5,000+ posts]

crowe ftw.

 

[eharri3 10+ year member]

What other types of songs do they not sound so great on? Are these songs that are supposed to have hard hitting bass or could you be trying to artificially boost something that is not there?

I don't know what 'gain maxed out' means but before the haters will come in I'll say I've had 2 different alpine head units that required significantly higher gain settings on the sub amp than the mid/high amp to get proper output and have heard of some Alpines making low voltage on the sub pre out so you actually may not be that far off.

Whether any boosting can cause gain issues depends on where it's set but in my experience a little boosting increases voltage FAST. I have one pioneer premier 10 shallowmount that needs 250 watts running off a 300 watt Alpine amp. Sub volume is maxed out, bass boost at the amp and head unit are zero. Most people will chime in to tell you you need to look at what's wrong with your equipment or your install before you boost. Id agree and say if you still feel the need for harding hitting bass just understand what effect it'll have before you do it. Maybe try cutting the trebble a bit.

 

[pegasis50 10+ year member]

What other types of songs do they not sound so great on? Are these songs that are supposed to have hard hitting bass or could you be trying to artificially boost something that is not there?
Most people will chime in to tell you you need to look at what's wrong with your equipment or your install before you boost. Id agree and say if you still feel the need for harding hitting bass just understand what effect it'll have before you do it. Maybe try cutting the trebble a bit.

I think thats what I am asking.......//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

I truly think I am trying to boost the lower frequencies on some songs that dont have them recorded very high to start with.

The install is solid...................good cables, distribution blocks, and connections. The run from the bat is relatively short. Grounds are to the bat as well.

I guess to re-phrase the question...........how do you get good bass response from songs/tracks that have low levels recorded (on the lower frequencies)?

And how do you know how to set the boost?

How can you tell if you are overdriving, or clipping the subs?

 

[headless 10+ year member]

You want an audiocontrol epicenter. It can make any song quad out like mad, because it actually generates bass based on your full range signal rather than simply trying to boost the (non existent in this case) existing bass like an EQ.

From an earlier post:

I owned an Epicenter for over a year and have a reasonable understanding of how it works; i'll give it a shot.
The Epicenter is a digital bass restoration device.

You send the Epicenter a full range, un crossed over signal. The epicenter looks at this signal and computes based on higher frequency octaves what it believes should be present in low frequencies. This is important to realise, because whereas a normal 'bass boost' requires that bass must be present in your source media/signal in order to boost it, the epicenter *does not give shit if any low freqs are already present*. It uses some kind of crazy subharmonic algorithms to figure out what it thinks should be present in the low frequencies based on what it sees in the higher frequencies.

You choose on the Epicenter what range of frequencies you want to adjust, both the center point and how wide of a range to adjust. That is done on the unit itself with 2 nobs labelled 'wide' and 'sweep'.

Directly from Audiocontrol - "The Sweep knob allows the user to pick the center frequency of the bass restoration. With the Sweep knob turned all the way to the left, The Epicenter® is centering restoration on 27Hz. With the Sweep knob turned all the way to the right, The Epicenter® is centering on 63Hz. The middle position represents approximately 45Hz. The Sweep knob can be set to center The Epicenter®'s restoration anywhere between 27Hz and 63Hz.

 

The Wide knob allows the user to control the width of the restoration. With the Wide knob turned all the way to the left, bass response is tighter and harder hitting. With the Wide knob turned all the way to the right, the bass response becomes more booming and open."

Once you've tuned the unit to 'boost' (create) bass in the right frequency range, you then adjust how much restoration you want by turning the nob that is mounted in the front of your vehicle.

Because the epicenter takes an un-crossed over signal to work correctly, you must cross over your signal AFTER the epicenter, which means those of you using crossovers on your non-fader output on your decks will need to change to using an outboard powered crossover or an internal x-over on your subwoofer amp to keep your subwoofer from seeing higher frequencies.

Along with this digital bass restoration, the epicenter functions as a signal boost, capable of boosting your signal strength all the way up to 10volts from only a 2v source (deck), and also has a module that can be switched out for high passing at 20hz or whathaveyou....PFM subsonic filter dealio.

It supports both balanced and unbalanced inputs.

You can make ANY music absolutely ****ing thunderous with the epicenter. You can also drive your amplifier into HARD clipping EXTREMELY easily if you do not know what you are doing. On the plus side, an old *** punch pushing a shitty *** Kicker CompVR in a sick ported box can sound obscenely loud when it's clipped all to hell. On the negative side...it sounds like complete shit too //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

The Epicenter is a bass-head's toy, not much more. Using it on some music results in muddy worthlessness. Using it on other music results in sickeningly badass, punchy and consuming bass. It's hit and miss, and you only get to tune the freqs to re-create bass in on the unit itself, so you can't tweak it for each song. You've just got the ability to turn it 'off' (nob down) or adjust how much it recreates by turning it up. It's a glorified parametric EQ merged with a badass harmonic bass restoration device.

Read the manual for some pretty pictures showing what i described //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

http://myeporia.eporia.com/Resources/Company_38/epicenter_OM.pdf

Hope this helps; feel free to correct me if someone else with a better understanding comes along.

 

[SPLluminator 10+ year member]

Im thinking its your box, or your settings on your amp/deck. What box you have?

 

[AudioJunkie73 10+ year member]

i agree with above poster. I have an Epicenter and songs that dont have bass sound awesome with it. But it distorts really really bad on songs with bass.

Also you may not have the right box. What kind of enclosure do you have?

 

[pegasis50 10+ year member]

I have a sealed box I built per rockford's specs...................I have built numerous boxes in the past with good results as well.

I do think its just lacking the boost on the lower frequencies.

The box sounds awesome on some tracks with heavy bass.

So the Epicenter sounds cool, but can you turn it down, or do you have that boost all the time? I was looking the 160 model that has a volume knob, but dont really know how that works. It also has a bypass boost button, I guess to turn it off.

http://www.audiocontrol.com/t34/5250/14152/In--Dash-Car-Audio-Processors/EPIC--160-In--dash-Car-Audio-Bass-Processor-and-160-dB-SPL-Display.html

 

[loud-n-low 10+ year member]

try the larger sealed box that rockford says(if you want sealed) ive heard p3's gget very low sealed in 1.5 cu ft

 

[headless 10+ year member]

The epicenter has a dash-mounted nob, so you can turn it all the way down or as far up as you need. This is essential because, depending on how amount of existing bass, you need to tweak that little nob to make it sound good. You can just leave it all the way off if you don't need any additional bass. The EPIC160 is not the same as the epicenter...it's got an SPL microphone of some kind and a screen that shows is. The epicenter is cheaper and more basic; i sold mine here for 100$ i think...

http://www.audiocontrol.com/14165/products/The-Epicenter-Bass-Restoration-Processor.html

 

[dumple 5,000+ posts]

have you played a bass mekanik cd?

I think waht your are saying is some songs get loud but others do not, which would lead me to think it is the specific songs you are playing. Maybe the ones that dont get loud dont have lows in it, and your gain definitely needs to be set properly / lowered if you do not have a DMM. Other then that tell us a lil more about the filters you have set on ur headunit/ amplifier.

 

[pegasis50 10+ year member]

The epicenter has a dash-mounted nob, so you can turn it all the way down or as far up as you need. This is essential because, depending on how amount of existing bass, you need to tweak that little nob to make it sound good. You can just leave it all the way off if you don't need any additional bass. The EPIC160 is not the same as the epicenter...it's got an SPL microphone of some kind and a screen that shows is. The epicenter is cheaper and more basic; i sold mine here for 100$ i think...

http://www.audiocontrol.com/14165/products/The-Epicenter-Bass-Restoration-Processor.html

The 160 is 50 bucks more at crutchfield, but looks simpler to mount/access/adjust than the original. I am mounting under the radio, so its a one shot deal. I guess I could do the other too, but then I need room for the unit + the knob. Gotta do some measuring.

 

[pegasis50 10+ year member]

have you played a bass mekanik cd?
I think waht your are saying is some songs get loud but others do not, which would lead me to think it is the specific songs you are playing. Maybe the ones that dont get loud dont have lows in it, and your gain definitely needs to be set properly / lowered if you do not have a DMM. Other then that tell us a lil more about the filters you have set on ur headunit/ amplifier.

Filters?

I am crossing the amp over at around 80 Hz (per rockford).

I have a +6 db boost at 63 Hz from the HU Eq, and thats about it.

I did realize on my sub amp it has a 1-8V preout switch, so the gain should be set higher than I thought. I will be checking with a meter shortly.

The bass mekanic stuff will run you out of the car............//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif