Laid off?

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

Here's basically the crux of the issue. If business expects me to invest $10k in obtaining skills to help their business grow, then shouldn't I be compensated for that investment?
The issue is now EVERYONE is chasing the same investment. Like the stock bubble, housing bubble, etc. I believe we are in the midst of an education bubble. You have millions of graduates who are told throughout high school they HAVE to go to college or they will have a job shipped off to Mexico. Then you have these people laid off, learning the same skills. Way to much supply.

The models all say that America should focus on high-skill, capital intensive projects. However the models forget there is no demand. Because the competitive advantage of Pacific Rim countries is their willingness to work for $3/day, they are unable to afford our exports. The issue is very akin to the issue Henry Ford faced around the turn of the century.

Very well put. I do find it amazing how they push college at school.

I think, which I could be wrong, America need to get the 'quality' back in their products. If other countries are going to make things at a much discounted price then we need to make things at a much higher quality. Differentiate ourselves from everyone else. Eventually we will come out of this mess.

But, meh. What do I know.

 

[koolwhipman 10+ year member]

yes i was laid off from a manufacturing job. The company itself didn't try and re-skill or train us for anything, they just kinda kicked us out the door and said see ya later. The Ohio Department of Job and Family services however has alot of programs to try and train you for a new trade. I was lucky enough to qualify for TAA benefits and the federal government is paying for me to go to college while i collect unemployment. unemployment benefits have been extended from 26 weeks to 108 weeks so i can get an associates degree.
they will also cover on the job training, or apprenticeships etc. if you want to go that route.

I'm assuming the work that you used to do went overseas, right?

I thing if the job itself stays in tha US then your SOL, but if it leaves the country, thats when the gov gives you unenjoyment and free college. Thats what I've heard.

So far this year I have been layed off 9 weeks total. I always have a return-to-work date. I had six weeks off and then came back for four and then off another three and than back for the last couple weeks. I get unemployment and don't have to send resumes of register at the unemp. office because I have a r-t-w day.

If current skilled labor have to reskill then it will depress the wages of the next higher skilled occupation...like a domino effect, depressing everyone's wages.

I can see that being the case, but I don't think there could be enough people that would take thet step. How many manufacturing jobs are going to be lost? Of those, how many people will be able/allowed to retrain? Of those, how many will actually do it? And then will they be concentrated in one field enough to affect it noticably? hmmm.....

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Very well put. I do find it amazing how they push college at school.
I think, which I could be wrong, America need to get the 'quality' back in their products. If other countries are going to make things at a much discounted price then we need to make things at a much higher quality. Differentiate ourselves from everyone else. Eventually we will come out of this mess.

But, meh. What do I know.

Even if there is high quality...how much demand is there for high quality products. And this is where I run into issues...what is our competitive advantage? What do we produce that others are willing and able to buy.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

I can see that being the case, but I don't think there could be enough people that would take thet step. How many manufacturing jobs are going to be lost? Of those, how many people will be able/allowed to retrain? Of those, how many will actually do it? And then will they be concentrated in one field enough to affect it noticably? hmmm.....

Actually, yes. The report from the GAO indicates that many people are able retrain and get another manufacturing job at less pay.

The issue is the supply of people with the skills is increasing at a greater rate than the demand.

 

[koolwhipman 10+ year member]

Even if there is high quality...how much demand is there for high quality products. And this is where I run into issues...what is our competitive advantage? What do we produce that others are willing and able to buy.

I live in Michigan, so I'm pre-programed to say "stop buying foriegn autos, it is ruining my economy"

But too many people don't see this State going to hell in a handbasket....

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

Even if there is high quality...how much demand is there for high quality products. And this is where I run into issues...what is our competitive advantage? What do we produce that others are willing and able to buy.

Well, that is the problem.

I honestly can't think of anything that is made in America that someone else doesn't have something better.

Cars, Speakers, TV, Furniture, Computers, etc etc etc. Sitting here in my apartment I can only see on thing that wasn't made somewhere else. My air purifier. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Everything else was made in Japan, China, Korea, England, etc.

It is a very sad state of affairs.

 

[koolwhipman 10+ year member]

Actually, yes. The report from the GAO indicates that many people are able retrain and get another manufacturing job at less pay.
The issue is the supply of people with the skills is increasing at a greater rate than the demand.

I wouldn't go back into manufacturing for LESS pay. I'd get outta the industry. Whois to say they wouldn't do the same thing to ya in a year or two?

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/verymad.gif.3f39c5c2fd57527b671fad3efdfac756.gif:verymad:

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Well, that is the problem.
I honestly can't think of anything that is made in America that someone else doesn't have something better.

Cars, Speakers, TV, Furniture, Computers, etc etc etc. Sitting here in my apartment I can only see on thing that wasn't made somewhere else. My air purifier. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Everything else was made in Japan, China, Korea, England, etc.

It is a very sad state of affairs.

I wouldn't say better...I would say of equivalent quality at half the price.

I advocated suspending the minimum wage as a way for us to remain competitive...

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

I wouldn't go back into manufacturing for LESS pay. I'd get outta the industry. Whois to say they wouldn't do the same thing to ya in a year or two?//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/verymad.gif.3f39c5c2fd57527b671fad3efdfac756.gif:verymad:

What industry would you get into? What if everyone else is doing the same thing. Now you have the 100 or 1,000 of you that just got laid off all training for similar skills.

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

I live in Michigan, so I'm pre-programed to say "stop buying foriegn autos, it is ruining my economy"
But too many people don't see this State going to hell in a handbasket....

Why would I buy domestic autos if I can get a foreign car for less money which is higher quality with more fuel economy?

Right now I drive a Buick, so this is just a question.

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

I wouldn't say better...I would say of equivalent quality at half the price.
I advocated suspending the minimum wage as a way for us to remain competitive...

AMEN... I figured I was the only one who felt this way.

I laughed at the minimum wage increase here in Ohio. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

 

[koolwhipman 10+ year member]

Why would I buy domestic autos if I can get a foreign car for less money which is higher quality with more fuel economy?
Right now I drive a Buick, so this is just a question.

The only SIMPLE answer is - To keep this country going. To keep its economy going, really. For now at least.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

AMEN... I figured I was the only one who felt this way.
I laughed at the minimum wage increase here in Ohio. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

However, there is a negative to that...the US should think in terms of purchasing power rather than dollars per hour.

Right now I make $2x.xx/ hr. I can buy a,b, and c goods. If I made $3/hr and could still buy a, b, and c. then I am still square. However, convincing the American public that there is no difference is a feat I cannot do.

For instance, I don't think people working at the register deserve $8/hr.

What govts don't understand about min wage increases is that it forces unskilled to compete with skilled labor, whose wage is set by the market. For instance, if they raised the min wage to $25/hr then the cashier at McDonalds would be competing with a much highly skilled workforce. The 16 year old who calls out to party with friends wouldn't have a job, as someone who needs the money more has already taken his spot. It leads to job gentrification.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

The only SIMPLE answer is - To keep this country going. To keep its economy going, really. For now at least.

In my paper, I am advocating increase wage, safety, and enviornmental standards to increase the welfare of our trading partners so they may purchase things from us.

Joe-

There is one industry where we are better than everyone else -- Aerospace and Defense....but consider the govt contracts that help maintain that competitive advantage.

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

The only SIMPLE answer is - To keep this country going. To keep its economy going, really. For now at least.

I don't think that is the only answer.

The Communists had this view and we see where they ended up. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

However, there is a negative to that...the US should think in terms of purchasing power rather than dollars per hour.
Right now I make $2x.xx/ hr. I can buy a,b, and c goods. If I made $3/hr and could still buy a, b, and c. then I am still square. However, convincing the American public that there is no difference is a feat I cannot do.

For instance, I don't think people working at the register deserve $8/hr.

What govts don't understand about min wage increases is that it forces unskilled to compete with skilled labor, whose wage is set by the market. For instance, if they raised the min wage to $25/hr then the cashier at McDonalds would be competing with a much highly skilled workforce. The 16 year old who calls out to party with friends wouldn't have a job, as someone who needs the money more has already taken his spot. It leads to job gentrification.

I love how my one Econ professor said it.

Some people just aren't worth $7 per hour.

In my paper, I am advocating increase wage, safety, and enviornmental standards to increase the welfare of our trading partners so they may purchase things from us.
Joe-

There is one industry where we are better than everyone else -- Aerospace and Defense....but consider the govt contracts that help maintain that competitive advantage.

Very true. America does have the best Aerospace and Defense.