Just curious about amp SQ

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

I'll just say this --

If you're paying hundreds (and hundreds?) of dollars for an "SQ" amp -- you have more money than brains.

Those amps aren't expensive because they sound better. They're expensive because they are built using very refined techniques -- such as an engineer hand selecting the components that fit best vs a 12 y/o in china assembling 100 pcs in the same amt of time.

Or the high end amp just has an ***-ton of profit margin -- both of which (build quality/profit) are probably true in about every case.

Those refined techniques don't give the amp sound quality. They give it quality. Period. It's not audible, but it lasts forever and holds its value.

What I'm saying is -- slight, if any SQ difference in a HF amp that does 100w at .05 thd vs a mega-money amp that does 100w at .01.

But that doesn't make the mega-money amp not worth its price. It does however, make it not worth it to me.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

My take on it from my experience in direct swaps from good A/B to good D.

Good A/B can be pushed and maintain good dynamics with headroom.

Good class D amps don't like to be pushed to their limits.

If you must go D like I had to this time get one with more power than you need to never push it to its limit.

All the "test" done have the amps setup to sound the same. That can be done but you might be taking away from the good amps to make it happen.

Think of it like a woofer since we all know how they work.

Can you make pretty much any woofer sound good? Yes.

To do it you might have to take away some of its output potential.

If you tune a box for a flat response you have to take away some peak output.

Same goes for amps. It takes less A/B power to match output of a class D because they can be pushed farther without issues.

 

[The_Quiet_One 10+ year member]

To tell you the truth, I was really more curious about the SQ difference between a good, solid amp (let's say like my Arc Audio KS900.6) and one of those extremely high-end amps (let's say McIntosh or Mosconi). Now, there's no way I will dish out the money for one of those amps, unless I win the MegsMillions Lotto or my income somehow triples in size. I've never listened to a super-high-end system and just wondered how the sound compares to an average Joe's sollid (but not spectacular) setup.

Well I'll tell you this. I've direct swapped a smaller Zapco C2K which I think most people would consider high end SQ with a couple mid tier in both car and a HT setup and my deaf ears couldn't tell a difference. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Added: I will say that I plan on picking up some other high end sq amps and testing them out as one isn't a great sample rate. I'm not going into great detail trying to defend one stance or another, but the exercise is solely for my edification and formation of opinion.

 

[LongThrow]

Well I'll tell you this. I've direct swapped a smaller Zapco C2K which I think most people would consider high end SQ with a couple mid tier in both car and a HT setup and my deaf ears couldn't tell a difference. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Looks like i was right //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/suave.gif.858fc102f7646e678ee8af7e1fbc41d1.gif

 

[The_Quiet_One 10+ year member]

Looks like i was right //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/suave.gif.858fc102f7646e678ee8af7e1fbc41d1.gif

You should ditch your amps with an internal curve and experiment with different amps yourself considering some of the mid tiers were class D //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/slap.gif.87520e8ca8e90076ac30e777c0de5331.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

 

[LongThrow]

You should ditch your amps with an internal curve and experiment with different amps yourself considering some of the mid tiers were class D //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/slap.gif.87520e8ca8e90076ac30e777c0de5331.gif//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

..What? Are you butthurt because you were wrong about the OP's original posting? And criticized me for it? LOL

About the whole interal curve - Jeffdachef told me about that. Go jump him I'm just repeating what a reputable user on the forum told me.

Forgive me if I read your post - thinking it was supposed to offend me. I have bad judgement.

 

[The_Quiet_One 10+ year member]

..What? Are you butthurt because you were wrong about the OP's original posting? And criticized me for it? LOL
About the whole interal curve - Jeffdachef told me about that. Go jump him I'm just repeating what a reputable user on the forum told me.

Wrong about OPs original posting? Only so far as a matter of semantics of what constitutes a high end sq amp...I would actually consider his Arc to be higher end SQ (well into the realm of diminishing returns per dollar unless your setup is absolutely perfect and you're playing lossless tracks). You're the one who started throwing around kicker crescendo etc and then posting a old list from some arbitrary determination of whether or not a company is good or not that you didn't even put together...lol You obviously lack the ability to read well since you're not even in the same ballpark as the OPs main topic, so I won't hold jeff responsible for something you may have misconstrued and then took as gospel. It's sounds like you're the one who has been butthurt the entire time. Go back to the OPs original post and read your response and think if your post was anything but useless to this conversation and then consider it could be misleading to someone who doesn't know better. Oh wait by your own statement that someone shouldn't be in car audio...Nor should I...It might would behoove you to research and read more before you made more ignorant posts otherwise you shouldn't be in car audio. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[LongThrow]

Wrong about OPs original posting? Only so far as a matter of semantics of what constitutes a high end sq amp...I would actually consider his Arc to be higher end SQ (well into the realm of diminishing returns per dollar unless your setup is absolutely perfect and you're playing lossless tracks). You're the one who started throwing around kicker crescendo etc and then posting a old list from some arbitrary determination of whether or not a company is good or not that you didn't even put together...lol You obviously lack the ability to read well since you're not even in the same ballpark as the OPs main topic, so I won't hold jeff responsible for something you may have misconstrued and then took as gospel. It's sounds like you're the one who has been butthurt the entire time. Go back to the OPs original post and read your response and think if your post was anything but useless to this conversation and then consider it could be misleading to someone who doesn't know better. Oh wait by your own statement that someone shouldn't be in car audio...Nor should I...It might would behoove you to research and read more before you made more ignorant posts otherwise you shouldn't be in car audio. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Seems you left out what I put in the last part of my post - I have bad judgement and didn't know if your posts were set out to offend me.

OP himself said that you were wrong - without STRAIGHT UP saying you were wrong.

To tell you the truth, I was really more curious about the SQ difference between a good, solid amp (let's say like my Arc Audio KS900.6) and one of those extremely high-end amps (let's say McIntosh or Mosconi)

Looks like we were both equally far off the topic just in different directions.

So I have to type a bunch of **** that can just be googled and pasted in two seconds? You're a lot dumber than I thought.

Took as gospel? He straight up PMed me saying "Class a/b amps have an internal eq cruve that peak in midbass" WORD FOR WORD.

I never said one time YOU shouldn't be in car audio. And I already covered what some ******* browsing this thread that has no business to be getting advice from, he should start his own thread. with his own equipment. with his own problems/questions. What some kid reads on here and believes is his cup of tea. If he wants legit advice he should make his own topic.

 

[fatboytyler]

Like Jeff said, going from high-end to high-end not much of a change. Depends on circuitry, class a/b or D. Class D amps are typically for monoblock (subwoofer amps) I believe class a/b amps have an internal curve for midrange frequencies.
Going from Boss (or any other boss-like brand, like pyle, pyramid, planet audio etc) to a higher-end amp, Kicker (Best product Kicker makes are wires, and amplifiers.), Or Crescendo, Hifonics, Digital Designs, DA, MA, RE, Orion, Memphis, Alpine, you'll see a noticeable difference. The 'bad' amplifiers will put out a dirty signal - terrible for SQ.

STAY AWAY FROM THESE COMPANIES

American Pro (All)

Audiobank (All)

Blackmore Mobile Electronics (All)

Blitz (All)

DHD (All)

Diesel Audio (All)

Kenford (All)

Kole Audio (All)

Legacy (All)

Majestic (All)

Performance Teknique (All)

Phase Linear (All)

Pyle (All)

Pyramid (All)

Rockwood (All)

Sherwood (All)

SPL (all)

Solid Audio (All)

Sound Storm (All)

Street Edge (All)

Ultra Linear (All)

XFile Audio (All)

Just throwing this out there, not all Planet Audio is bad. Their BB 175.4 which I had for a brief moment in time, sounded better than my Soundqubed 120.4 and my buddies Hertz 4 channel.

But yea, Jeff nailed it.

 

[The_Quiet_One 10+ year member]

Seems you left out what I put in the last part of my post - I have bad judgement and didn't know if your posts were set out to offend me.
OP himself said that you were wrong - without STRAIGHT UP saying you were wrong.

So I have to type a bunch of **** that can just be googled and pasted in two seconds? You're a lot dumber than I thought.

Took as gospel? He straight up PMed me saying "Class a/b amps have an internal eq cruve that peak in midbass" WORD FOR WORD.

I never said one time YOU shouldn't be in car audio. And I already covered what some ******* browsing this thread that has no business to be getting advice from, he should start his own thread. with his own equipment. with his own problems/questions.

You added that part after I had read and quoted you. I wasn't out specifically to seriously offend you, mainly to tease. As far as OP's question IMHO he is going to need to jump to esoteric amps that cost well into the 1000's, 2000's, and higher to make the comparison he is looking for otherwise I feel it would be a lateral move. His definition of mid tier and my definition of mid tier are obviously different and that's where the breakdown of my understanding of his question lie.

So you just googled and ran across threads and then copied and pasted? Isn't that doing something similar what you advised against? None of the equipment the OP mentioned was in the jigsaw post you made. I may be dumber than you thought, but at least I can read SQ, ARC, McIntosh, and Mosconi. If he is using/owns an ARC KS amp he is likely beyond looking at any of the amp brands you listed with the exception of a select few models. Out of curiosity what amp brands have you used?

 

[The_Quiet_One 10+ year member]

Yeah, planet audio and boss both had some solid zed designed models. Of course I wouldn't touch much of anything else by them unless I found them super cheap in order to play around with them/give them away to someone who needs a bit of amplification in their 1980's chevette.

 

[UMWDawg92 10+ year member]

Like Jeff said, going from high-end to high-end not much of a change. Depends on circuitry, class a/b or D. Class D amps are typically for monoblock (subwoofer amps) I believe class a/b amps have an internal curve for midrange frequencies.
Going from Boss (or any other boss-like brand, like pyle, pyramid, planet audio etc) to a higher-end amp, Kicker (Best product Kicker makes are wires, and amplifiers.), Or Crescendo, Hifonics, Digital Designs, DA, MA, RE, Orion, Memphis, Alpine, you'll see a noticeable difference. The 'bad' amplifiers will put out a dirty signal - terrible for SQ.

STAY AWAY FROM THESE COMPANIES

American Pro (All)

Audiobank (All)

Blackmore Mobile Electronics (All)

Blitz (All)

DHD (All)

Diesel Audio (All)

Kenford (All)

Kole Audio (All)

Legacy (All)

Majestic (All)

Performance Teknique (All)

Phase Linear (All)

Pyle (All)

Pyramid (All)

Rockwood (All)

Sherwood (All)

SPL (all)

Solid Audio (All)

Sound Storm (All)

Street Edge (All)

Ultra Linear (All)

XFile Audio (All)

I just wanted to throw in that Kole audio made a few monos that used the same boards as some powerbass monos and while they won't do what Kole rated them at. They do put out some decent clean power.

 

[LongThrow]

You added that part after I had read and quoted you. I wasn't out specifically to seriously offend you, mainly to tease. As far as OP's question IMHO he is going to need to jump to esoteric amps that cost well into the 1000's, 2000's, and higher to make the comparison he is looking for otherwise I feel it would be a lateral move. His definition of mid tier and my definition of mid tier are obviously different and that's where the breakdown of my understanding of his question lie.
So you just googled and ran across threads and then copied and pasted? Isn't that doing something similar what you advised against? None of the equipment the OP mentioned was in the jigsaw post you made. I may be dumber than you thought, but at least I can read SQ, ARC, McIntosh, and Mosconi. If he is using/owns an ARC KS amp he is likely beyond looking at any of the amp brands you listed with the exception of a select few models. Out of curiosity what amp brands have you used?

Could of swore you told me to PM you. Derailing city here.

I googled a list of things, I knew most of the brands, maybe I didn't want to be fucked with researching specific ****** brands when you can paste it, I skimmed over all those and recognized they were bad so I copied and pasted it, so you want me to type all that up myself just to prove a point?. Not even close to what I advised against. I've used Rockford & Kicker obviously its in my sig, used Hifonics, Crescendo, Alpine and Pioneer amps. Doesn't matter what I've used, he clearly just wanted to know the difference in mid to high end SQ amps. And if any difference in high end to high end amps. You don't need to have used a million amps to answer that question. 0.01 THD and 1% THD are no different.

Yeah, planet audio and boss both had some solid zed designed models. Of course I wouldn't touch much of anything else by them unless I found them super cheap in order to play around with them/give them away to someone who needs a bit of amplification in their 1980's chevette.

I had a Planet Audio I forgot to mention, Believe 150w monoblock amp at 4 ohms everyone said would only push 60w. Had it benchmarked at 127w at 4 ohms. Now, they claimed1500 watts, but I know better. theyre not cea 2006 compliant.

I just wanted to throw in that Kole audio made a few monos that used the same boards as some powerbass monos and while they won't do what Kole rated them at. They do put out some decent clean power.

Interesting.

 

[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

If the source, speakers, and install is **** none of this matters

 

[MrFoca]

If the source, speakers, and install is **** none of this matters

If it's all DD. Then it's smooth sailing