Jl audio w7 13.5" vs rockford fosgate t2 12d4 vs re xxx 12"

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Again you come back to the suspension. Please point out to me where I denied the W7's suspension will travel that far. Sure any W7 owner can confirm the sub WILL move that far. But, under normal user conditions (that is what we are talking about here right, not extremes?) will that owner push it anywhere near 50mm? No. Now who is not getting something through their skull?

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

we should really let this die, I am not taking sides, but warbleed is one of the most knowledgeable people I know on subs, he has given me better box design measurements for a few boxes than the make of the sub, that only occurs from trial and error, aka practice, so lets let this thread die,

 

[Warbleed 10+ year member]

Again you come back to the suspension. Please point out to me where I denied the W7's suspension will travel that far. Sure any W7 owner can confirm the sub WILL move that far. But, under normal user conditions (that is what we are talking about here right, not extremes?) will that owner push it anywhere near 50mm? No. Now who is not getting something through their skull?

Now how does the frequency of times that the average user excurts the driver to full excursion have any effect on that travel being usable? It doesn't, at all.

There are plenty of people who frequently drive their drivers beyond xmax. Now whether we are talking 2mm beyond xmax or 10mm, having all that extra suspension travel makes it usable travel.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Now how does the frequency of times that the average user excurts the driver to full excursion have any effect on that travel being usable? It doesn't, at all.
There are plenty of people who frequently drive their drivers beyond xmax. Now whether we are talking 2mm beyond xmax or 10mm, having all that extra suspension travel makes it usable travel.

How often matters completely when my point all along has been that its not the big advantage you make it out to be. I've made that quite clear, all along.

I have not once denied the W7's suspension travel, but I have questioned its importance when you consider that when exceeding the -linear- capabilities it will simply put out way too much distortion to be considered 'useable'. Maybe to a moron who doesn't know what distortion sounds like, or the odd SPL competitor who is not only using W7's for SPL ( //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/uhoh.gif.c07307dd22ee7e63e22fc8e9c614d1fd.gif ) but is also running them sealed, pushing the sub well beyond where its stays linear is a regular thing. But where Im from distortion counts.

The W7's suspension has 50mm of useable travel, the subwoofer does not. To say otherwise implies a situation that simply isn't real. I don't know how more plainly to put my arguement.

edit: thanks for letting up on the personal attacks

 

[Warbleed 10+ year member]

The W7's suspension has 50mm of useable travel, the subwoofer does not. To say otherwise implies a situation that simply isn't real. I don't know how more plainly to put my arguement.

The subwoofer does, the suspension is merely its means of doing so. Now it obviously isn't perfectly LINEAR travel, but it can quite easily be utilized.

It won't make a difference for many users, no, but it does reduce Cms distortion at xmax (BL distortion is about the only contributor to distortion at Xmax for the W7s, as the Cms of the driver has barely changed at all, even at Xmax).

Now at 50mm of throw, distortion would be EXTREMELY high. No one's debating that. The point is that Xsus and Xmech are far beyond Xmax, which allows a lot more usable travel.

It can quite easily be the difference between needing an infrasonic filter to prevent damage, versus not requiring one, since bottoming the driver is a non-issue in most applications.

Richard Clark even commented on the remarkable ability for the 13w7 to convert power into output, and even named the large amount of suspension travel as one of the reasons for it (less significant than it's BL linearity before Xmax, of course).

Having that much extra travel would also help reduce compression, since the driver isn't likely at all to reach a point where it cannot physically move as far as the coil is trying to move.

 

[icemayne696 10+ year member]

I believe this argument rests on a opinion: How much distortion do you find acceptable? But it is also dependent on what your use for the install is, spl vs. sq? No need for personal attacks here. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/thumbsup.gif.3287b36ca96645a13a43aff531f37f02.gif

 

[wagz 10+ year member]

Guys, I'm still not understanding this. If Adire states on their site that a Brahma max is 4800 watts and JL states on their site that a 12W7 is voided at 1500 watts or more and starts to reach danger zone around 1200, doesn't that tell you that a Brahma can handle more power(watts)? I mean the W7 is voided before the Brahma and XXX reach their RMS.
And my point is, that if a Brahma can't take 3000 watts in the right enclosure, which is 1800 watts less then MAX. Then the official specs are incorrect. Again like I said, 3000 watts isn't something I would use for a daily driver but you should be able to burp it once in a while, no? Like for competitions and such?

I have no experience with either, I'm just basing my arguement of the specs alone.

no these are procautions, if jl didnt mention that they would void the warrenty at 1500 for the 12w7 then they would have every kid that knew di*k about subs trying to run 2000+ to them in every condition thinking that the more watts the louder they get without consideration to the limitations of the sub. as for the brahma, its a max, it truely doesnt mean much, its the thermal rating for a 1000th of a second (4800watts) i have never seen anyone give a brahma that much power and i doubt many have...dont go by what the manufacturers say maybe the brahmas voice coil wont melt at 3000watts (1800watts less) , but if you give it that much power lets say not even in a box just sitting in free air, it will throw the sub far enough to tear it to shreds...but hey the voice coil didnt melt, its a thermal rating, its not what the suspension of the sub can take, its what the voicecoil will melt at.

and as far as the whole XXX vs 13w7 who really cares? ive heard arguments for both about which sound better...and if you want SPL you wouldent be using a XXX youd be using a MT which would hand both their a$$'s. but i really dont think that anyone can argue that the XXX comes at a better price

 

[Matth3wJL 10+ year member]

i was wondering what is the overall better spl and and sq sub something loud money not a factor its goin in a hummer h2 some say jl some say re i was wndering abut the rockford fosgate t2. i want 2 subs ( either jl re or rockford fosgate. ) then get an amp and run each 1 about 1, 500 watts. which amp would u recomened. any 1 no a good site to see the rexxx. thanx for all ur help. if u no of anything else to help my system plz tell me like how to help run all this peace.

RE XXX 12" 2 of em would rock.

 

[snb778 5,000+ posts]

Warbleed, since you are trying to talk to much **** about the W-7...why dont you listen to both subs, in the correct box, all settings correct and be the jidge for yourself. There are many people on this website that have had both subs...and unfortunately for you...most of them have stuck with their XXX. I see more RE's leading competitions than I do JL And then again, some of it may be personal preference. GET OUT THERE AND HEAR IT FOR YOURSELF. You live in Indiana...im sure there are plenty of places you can hear a brahma at least...****, thats where I even found out the Brahma existed.

 

[snb778 5,000+ posts]

* judge

 

[Warbleed 10+ year member]

Warbleed, since you are trying to talk to much **** about the W-7...why dont you listen to both subs, in the correct box, all settings correct and be the jidge for yourself. There are many people on this website that have had both subs...and unfortunately for you...most of them have stuck with their XXX. I see more RE's leading competitions than I do JL And then again, some of it may be personal preference. GET OUT THERE AND HEAR IT FOR YOURSELF. You live in Indiana...im sure there are plenty of places you can hear a brahma at least...****, thats where I even found out the Brahma existed.

Talking ****? I never once made any statement about how the W7 sounds. I'm dealing with facts. Listening tests have ZERO effect on those facts. If you think that you must listen to a woofer in order to gauge it's OBJECTIVE performance capabilities, you really need to ask yourself if you understand objective speaker evaluation...just FYI, your ears are USELESS for objective evaluation.
If I were trying to make the statement "I think the W7 sounds better than the Brahma.", you'd have a point. Unfortunately for you, I'm not. I am merely going by OBJECTIVE obvious FACTS about each design. No amount of listening will EVER change those facts.

I have listened to the Brahma AND the W7, and I think they are both excellent woofers, but again, that's totally irrelevant to every post I've made in this entire thread.

I never argued that the W7 was a better overall value (it isn't), nor have I said you'd be a fool to buy a XXX over a W7, or even that most people would buy a W7 over a XXX, so I fail to see what point you wish your post proved.

Lastly, I don't live in Indiana. I live in Iowa. The abbreviation for Indiana isn't IA, it's IN.

Experience is a dear teacher, but fools will learn at no other.



- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)