Is more displacement always better, even with the same power?

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

Hmm. Telling me about assuming... Well, if you read what I said. Displacement is not the only factor. But with everything else equal, it is.
Now, I'm going to take a guess here that you've never done hours of testing besides setting gains. Trying multitudes of box positions, locations, etc. Running sine sweeps on every one of them. I would love to see videos and pictures of you running tests on these twelves and then moving to the tens.

Notice what you've said. If the wave does not have enough room to develop, it won't be as loud. What moving the box around does will change that. It opens up the resonant frequencies. You can call me uneducated if you'd like, but simple physics will show that displacement will rule out.

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If you move the box, everything is not equal. Therefore dissing your whole statement. But you are right I have never tested anything //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

By saying the same sub, I assumed you would realize I meant with similar specifications. I.E. - a ten inch sub reconed to a twelve will be louder, not by much, but it will be - assuming the new installation is correct for the twelve. Including a box size to spec.

They have similar specs. The have the same motor. They are from the same exact model line.

 

[Plutoman 10+ year member]

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If you move the box, everything is not equal. Therefore dissing your whole statement. But you are right I have never tested anything //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Not so much. I said with a correct installation for each. Moving the box would be required in some cases to get a correct installation for the maximum potential of the subwoofer.

If all those are the same for the BA 10.4/12.4, then the excursion difference should not be enough to make a difference in contrast to the cone area. If the excursion is enough to make up for that, then there is something designed differently about the subwoofer. And that's also twisting my words with rare exceptions. An alpine type R 15" sub will be louder than a 12" type R off the same amount of power with a correct installation for each.

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

Not so much. I said with a correct installation for each. Moving the box would be required in some cases to get a correct installation for the maximum potential of the subwoofer.
If all those are the same for the BA 10.4/12.4, then the excursion difference should not be enough to make a difference in contrast to the cone area. If the excursion is enough to make up for that, then there is something designed differently about the subwoofer. And that's also twisting my words with rare exceptions. An alpine type R 15" sub will be louder than a 12" type R off the same amount of power with a correct installation for each.

Please define 'correct' installation. That is a variable all by itself. Heres a hint: There is no such thing.

If there are exceptions, then there are no rules, and thus defeating your whole argument.

Dont worry I remember being your age and I thought I knew everything too. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/cool.gif.3bcaf8f141236c00f8044d07150e34f7.gif

 

[Plutoman 10+ year member]

I always love to see arrogance combined with ignorance.

There's always exceptions to any rule. It's rare to see a ten from the same line be louder than a twelve, as generally they have the same excursion. However, I haven't seen a table of specs, either, so I'm not going to accept your words right off the bat, either.

There is a correct installation, too. Where the box is optimally sized and placed for the maximum sound. It's what SPL competitors strive for. And if you notice, most of them DO try to pack in as much cone area as possible. If displacement wasn't a big factor, people wouldn't do four 18's in a vehicle.

Hint: Take a physics class.

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

I always love to see arrogance combined with ignorance.
There's always exceptions to any rule. It's rare to see a ten from the same line be louder than a twelve, as generally they have the same excursion. However, I haven't seen a table of specs, either, so I'm not going to accept your words right off the bat, either.

There is a correct installation, too. Where the box is optimally sized and placed for the maximum sound. It's what SPL competitors strive for. And if you notice, most of them DO try to pack in as much cone area as possible. If displacement wasn't a big factor, people wouldn't do four 18's in a vehicle.

Hint: Take a physics class.

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You are the definition of ignorance, brah.

Please show me optimal box for every sub in every car. I will be waiting.

WTF is maximum sound?

Nobody said displacement isnt a big factor. But it is far from the only factor.

I need a physics class? That might be the funniest shit I have ever read on this forum.

 

[thegreatestpenn 5,000+ posts]

why are you two arguing this guy's thread up?

rule of thumb OP: car audio is 10% equipment and 90% install. So of course install is what matters most. But once you remove that 90%, cone area plays a major role. So figure out what's the best way to install equipment for loudness, then figure out what sub setup works best in that framework. Sometimes this narrows your setup choices considerably

 

[Plutoman 10+ year member]

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You are the definition of ignorance, brah.

Please show me optimal box for every sub in every car. I will be waiting.

WTF is maximum sound?

Why would I show an optimal box for every car? You build a box for the sub, place it in the vehicle as best to achieve the most SPL. Assuming you are aiming for SPL.

You could go my route and not even use a box.

thegreatestpenn summarized it well. And he's right, I'm done arguing, take it to PM's if you really want to be that stubborn on it.

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

why are you two arguing this guy's thread up?
rule of thumb OP: car audio is 10% equipment and 90% install. So of course install is what matters most. But once you remove that 90%, cone area plays a major role. So figure out what's the best way to install equipment for loudness, then figure out what sub setup works best in that framework. Sometimes this narrows your setup choices considerably

There is no way to answer the ops question with any certainty. Way too many variables.

Why would I show an optimal box for every car? You build a box for the sub, place it in the vehicle as best to achieve the most SPL. Assuming you are aiming for SPL.
You could go my route and not even use a box.

thegreatestpenn summarized it well. And he's right, I'm done arguing, take it to PM's if you really want to be that stubborn on it.

No one is arguing. I am merely pointing out the flaws in your logic.

 

[grimreper912003 5,000+ posts]

Also the plus of Girlz love the multi-sub set up.

Makes em wet

If they even care //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[Plutoman 10+ year member]

There's no flaws in my logic as you would know if you were arguing from your head instead of somewhere else. Yes, take a physics class. Then maybe you'll have some basis to argue from. There's no real points you've given me to contradict anything besides saying I'm wrong. You prove me wrong, great, but I want something to prove it. So far, you've said no facts besides one sub, which has no proof either, and called me ignorant when I start telling you how it works. It says something about yourself.

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

There's no flaws in my logic as you would know if you were arguing from your head instead of somewhere else. Yes, take a physics class. Then maybe you'll have some basis to argue from. There's no real points you've given me to contradict anything besides saying I'm wrong. You prove me wrong, great, but I want something to prove it. So far, you've said no facts besides one sub, which has no proof either, and called me ignorant when I start telling you how it works. It says something about yourself.

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Get back to me when you have some experience.

 

[Plutoman 10+ year member]

And you go doing it again. Pathetic much? Oh look, I'm back. My opinions remain the same. Come back when you have something to prove your point that didn't come from your ***.

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

And you go doing it again. Pathetic much? Oh look, I'm back. My opinions remain the same. Come back when you have something to prove your point that didn't come from your ***.

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I need to prove myself to some punk *** kid?

Now that is funny.

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[Ctesibius 10+ year member]

So why are two 10s louder in my car vs the same exact 12s? With many hours of testing?

Without knowing exact details of course no one here is going to be able to tell you why. Could have been differences in enclosure design, airflow surrounding the enclosure, definition of "louder" (where in frequency, by how much and the measurement method and equipment), etc. Dozens of things would need to be taken into consideration for a proper analysis.

Pluto is correct; All else equal displacement is king. The problem is getting "all else equal". Best thing to do is maximize the displacement for the given available space. Don't shove four 12's in a trunk only large enough to properly fit two, for example.