Interesting full range drivers

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

For me, high end is the most important part of the sound, so I just don't see how a 6" could effecently produce anything above 3-4k. I know the box makes a hude difference but, still if it wont move that fast how is it going to have a good clean responce up into 10k or 15k?

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

still if it wont move that fast how is it going to have a good clean responce up into 10k or 15k?

The ability to "move that fast" is limited by the inductance, not the cone diameter. And most full range drivers like that will have incredibly low inductance, hence allowing for high frequency extension.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

Wouldn't it also have to do with the Bl of the speaker and the mms? I don't really know, I'm just wondering.

I like the full range approach because my room images like shit in a house of mirrors during a hurricane. I don't have to blend 3 or 2 different cones to get a good image, it's all coming out of one. You also don't have to worry as much about beaming as well.

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

Still you generate lots of distortion when you have such a large cone area moving so fast. There is a reason why you don’t have many tweeters that are 5 or 6 inches. The excursion is less but there is lots more mass and resistance that doesn't need to be there to generate the acoustic output. That is what my point was.

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

Wouldn't it also have to do with the Bl of the speaker and the mms? I don't really know, I'm just wondering.
I like the full range approach because my room images like shit in a house of mirrors during a hurricane. I don't have to blend 3 or 2 different cones to get a good image, it's all coming out of one. You also don't have to worry as much about beaming as well.

The imaging is done at the face of the speaker. The room makes a difference but when it comes down to it it's all about what it does at the face of the speaker, unless of course your outup pattern is 160x60 or 20x30 lol...

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Still you generate lots of distortion when you have such a large cone area moving so fast. There is a reason why you don’t have many tweeters that are 5 or 6 inches. The excursion is less but there is lots more mass and resistance that doesn't need to be there to generate the acoustic output. That is what my point was.

Yes, the cone will likely have some resonances and such that will contribute to distortion....but that's not what you said //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif The ability to physically move that fast is related primarily to inductance. Whether or not it'll sound good moving that fast is a whole nother issue.......

Plus beaming would be an issue (another reason for no large coned tweeters). I'm not sure how well the whizzer combats this issue.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

The imaging is done at the face of the speaker. The room makes a difference but when it comes down to it it's all about what it does at the face of the speaker, unless of course your outup pattern is 160x60 or 20x30 lol...

Ok then, let me rephrase that. My room is all corners, vaults and other retarded acoustical masterpieces. I can get ZERO soundstage out of it, and to make the cones blend together into a single image is even more difficult because the sound is completely ****ed by the shape. It's a trapezoidal ceiling aidn kind of hexagonal with a lil alcove in the back. You can flush mount, roundover and put the cones as close as you want, but once the sound reaches you, it's already nearly destroyed. I just listen for the detail in the cones now instead of being immersed in the sound. Hope that makes sense //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

Yes, the cone will likely have some resonances and such that will contribute to distortion....but that's not what you said //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif The ability to physically move that fast is related primarily to inductance. Whether or not it'll sound good moving that fast is a whole nother issue.......
Plus beaming would be an issue (another reason for no large coned tweeters). I'm not sure how well the whizzer combats this issue.

I don't know about beaming, but the off axis response from a whizzer sounds worse than Tom Jones getting ***** by a gorilla.

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

Not that it matters but, the point was simply that there is no way that ONE driver can produce high frequency and low frequency together efficiently at the same time and sound good.... Anyway, inductance, cone mass, and cone size and other figures all make up what frequency range a driver will effectively operate in.

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

Ok then, let me rephrase that. My room is all corners, vaults and other retarded acoustical masterpieces. I can get ZERO soundstage out of it, and to make the cones blend together into a single image is even more difficult because the sound is completely ****ed by the shape. It's a trapezoidal ceiling aidn kind of hexagonal with a lil alcove in the back. You can flush mount, roundover and put the cones as close as you want, but once the sound reaches you, it's already nearly destroyed. I just listen for the detail in the cones now instead of being immersed in the sound. Hope that makes sense //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif

Sounds like you need a good set of cans lol....

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

Sounds like you need a good set of cans lol....

Yeah dude, I almost bought some Grados bue then I dropped 4 bills on 4 D6gs and some Vifa tweets. Sounded good, but NOT good enough.

 

[dakar8 10+ year member]

Not that it matters but, the point was simply that there is no way that ONE driver can produce high frequency and low frequency together efficiently at the same time and sound good....

If there's no way it can sound good why do audiophile people spend the time to make transmission lines and folded horns for that exact purpose? If you have enough room for the box necessary to get good lowend out of a fullrange then it's totally possible //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

If there's no way it can sound good why do audiophile people spend the time to make transmission lines and folded horns for that exact purpose? If you have enough room for the box necessary to get good lowend out of a fullrange then it's totally possible //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

TL's have a decent low end, but horns have quite the ragged low bass reponse. I wouldn't play them much below 50Hz or so before things start to get iffy. Still, I think you should have a solid subwoofer for something like this.

As for the highs, the beaming issue is the only one I really have with it - the actual tonal quality is fine if you're relatively on-axis or have large phase plugs. But going to a 6" or smaller driver will help a ton.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

My phase plugs > your phase plugs.

 

[joetama 5,000+ posts]

A lot of the "audiophile" people do things just to do them. Guys who grew up on Klipsch corner horns will build folded horn systems or corner reflectors just because that's what they want. However, they might not be the cleanest and sharpest sounding device. I believe as John Bowers said a speaker system shouldn't give the most it should take away the least. With horns there is added distortion and phasing issues it is just a given and pretty understood. Let me see, to get 30 Hz out of a true horn design (least amount of distortion added) you need a horn mouth opening of 45 square feet. This is nine time five; if you do you have a living room big enough for that type of system you prolly aren’t a member of this forum and should be on the Rolls Royce forum lol… But, if you tune your horn to have low end response then it won’t be tuned for high end response. CD horns only work over a certain frequency range; they would be too big to be full range. When 2*(A*pi)^.5 is > than the wavelength, where A = mouth area of the horn, then the horn loads properly but when it is