Install ?'s and advice needed from advanced installers (PPI and BA proseries)

[jmw3235 10+ year member]

So I am fairly new to car audio as far as sound quality is concerned. So I am putting together an old school system in my 67 Camaro. I want it to be legit. So here is the list of amps I have available to use as well as the speakers.

Amps: All charcoal power class not the chrome.

pc250 pc650 pc2100 pc2350 pc4100 pc1200 pc1400

For crossovers- I have a frx456 or epx223.

Equalizer- par245

Phase shift Controller- psc221

Head unit- Eclipse 5423 (I like this one but just getting tired of it. Also got a Kenwood kiv-bt900 (may sell and look for something for sq oriented though but for now an option)

Speakers:

Subs- 1 12.4lf BA pro-series(firing forward into cabin)

2 8.4lf BA pro-series(mounting in rear package tray firing up at rear window)

Pro series 6.5x BA component set-(tweeters mounted low on a-pillar's facing each other w/ the 6.5lf in the kick panels facing each other)

I have a another set of 6.5lf's that I am wanting to mount low in the front of the door panel?? Also got some BA rm9's available.

Pretty lost on what is the best set up possible out of the combination I have. Also should I point the 6.5's at each other, at the driver and at the passenger or off axis? Any help greatly appreciated.

Click to read more...

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

I am familiar with that gear, but I don't remember all of the specs. Post specs of each to help us. Pics of the gear, would help

 

[reallyxxxxloud 10+ year member]

MMM kind of a hard question as really only you can answer what you want for yourself system wise? But as far as placement and how it will sound this should help...

This is where good tuning comes into place. Its got nothing to do with setting up the gear (well it has but thats a very very small!!! but still important part of it). ITS PLACEMENT, PLACEMENT, PLACEMENT.

Well...Your fucked straight off the bat, if you you wanting the sound for both you and the passenger. Reason is your not at home with the speakers miles in front of you with with minimal parthlength and arrival time differences . I always have set it up for myself (driver) as this will yeld the best you can get results... I paid for the stereo I should be the one enyoying it (so I use time correction but thats another story)... but if your still determined to give it a go try this!!!

Mid bass in doors crossover at 200hz @ 24db to not drag down sound stage and high pass it at 125hz @ 6 db (80hz at 18db if no sound deadening) to blend it with Mid/Sub bass (Low pass sub at 80-100hz @ 24db, try different freqs as you may end up with a hump in some cars). Midbass/Midrange/Tweeter from the centre of the cone of each e.g. left to the drivers left ear (righthand drive car) then measure to the left ear of the passengers left ear, compromise between the two so both have a similar parthlength difference, then the same for the right (notice I didn't use the centre of the car, your not going to be driving around with both you heads in the centre of the car and the centre of the car will yeald different measurements again). You've just set up parthlengths for left and right but the arrival time will be out because for the passenger the right speakers will be further away than the left and this will cause phase shift-some freqs will be 180degs out of phase with each other, example- you have a parthlength difference of one foot between left and right midrange say at 500hz (wave-length of 2 foot) so one driver (the opposite diver for each listener) will be 180 degs out of phase at the listener causing a drop out in sound around this point, and this happens to be getting to a critical point in your imaging. If your path length for your tweeters are a shorter path length than the midrange you will pull the sound stage height down to your feet and if its to long it will raise it to the roof. If you do-not get this right you will not get the sweetspot... You cannot correct this easily, this is the point that kills it for a car let alone all the other problems like reflection, road noise and a yelling wife/kids .

Every fucken thing above gets thrown out the window now because of this below ... This can and will change its location for each driver. But above is written how you should start your system then go from there. Now you have set this up you will need to deal with the speakers on/off axis response. This no one can help you with this is to be done in car and is the make brake part of the install, as it has a lot to do with the cars reflections/speakers directivity and how good you are at correcting this by ear!!! Then you have eq tweeking to drop/up any small bumps/dips but really this sould be done via the install not the eq. Hope this helps Remember this is just a reference point (starting point) theres always to many varibles to deal with but its a good start!!!

 

[fasfocus00 5,000+ posts]

MMM kind of a hard question as really only you can answer what you want for yourself system wise? But as far as placement and how it will sound this should help...This is where good tuning comes into place. Its got nothing to do with setting up the gear (well it has but thats a very very small!!! but still important part of it). ITS PLACEMENT, PLACEMENT, PLACEMENT.

Well...Your fucked straight off the bat, if you you wanting the sound for both you and the passenger. Reason is your not at home with the speakers miles in front of you with with minimal parthlength and arrival time differences . I always have set it up for myself (driver) as this will yeld the best you can get results... I paid for the stereo I should be the one enyoying it (so I use time correction but thats another story)... but if your still determined to give it a go try this!!!

Mid bass in doors crossover at 200hz @ 24db to not drag down sound stage and high pass it at 125hz @ 6 db (80hz at 18db if no sound deadening) to blend it with Mid/Sub bass (Low pass sub at 80-100hz @ 24db, try different freqs as you may end up with a hump in some cars). Midbass/Midrange/Tweeter from the centre of the cone of each e.g. left to the drivers left ear (righthand drive car) then measure to the left ear of the passengers left ear, compromise between the two so both have a similar parthlength difference, then the same for the right (notice I didn't use the centre of the car, your not going to be driving around with both you heads in the centre of the car and the centre of the car will yeald different measurements again). You've just set up parthlengths for left and right but the arrival time will be out because for the passenger the right speakers will be further away than the left and this will cause phase shift-some freqs will be 180degs out of phase with each other, example- you have a parthlength difference of one foot between left and right midrange say at 500hz (wave-length of 2 foot) so one driver (the opposite diver for each listener) will be 180 degs out of phase at the listener causing a drop out in sound around this point, and this happens to be getting to a critical point in your imaging. If your path length for your tweeters are a shorter path length than the midrange you will pull the sound stage height down to your feet and if its to long it will raise it to the roof. If you do-not get this right you will not get the sweetspot... You cannot correct this easily, this is the point that kills it for a car let alone all the other problems like reflection, road noise and a yelling wife/kids .

Every fucken thing above gets thrown out the window now because of this below ... This can and will change its location for each driver. But above is written how you should start your system then go from there. Now you have set this up you will need to deal with the speakers on/off axis response. This no one can help you with this is to be done in car and is the make brake part of the install, as it has a lot to do with the cars reflections/speakers directivity and how good you are at correcting this by ear!!! Then you have eq tweeking to drop/up any small bumps/dips but really this sould be done via the install not the eq. Hope this helps Remember this is just a reference point (starting point) theres always to many varibles to deal with but its a good start!!!

dude's right. I personally think instead of doing the whole measuring thing you should try my method. make the face of the pods you're going to use and place a laser pointer in each. get a buddy and a fog machine (humidifier will work too, just something that will make a cloud not fire). place the pods roughly where you want them and try to get the lasers to cross right around the drivers right shoulder. or you can just aim the laser to hit the dome light, that way both sides will have similar responses for both passenger and driver.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

Great information.

Don't forget to take crossover phase shift into consideration. And avoid/minimize on-axis specular reflections off glass. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[3XL12DPBFAN]

Well i was like whatttt lol i went and even look at a 67 to see whats going on . Well i could be wrong which i am sure i would be told lol . But would add a center chanel may help balance the sound you might not need a crossover if you have a eq which could cause sound issues also pods can be difficult to use if you don't know what ya doing . But these othe guys did give you some helpful info . Jus take ya time keep us in formed ...

 

[jmw3235 10+ year member]

thanks for the info. I am going to have to read it a couple times to understand but that is what I am looking for. I thought of adding a center channel as the car is set up with one from the factory I just thought it might mess more than help. Def something to think about. Ill get some pics up soon.