Input on future selections.

[WhiteYota]

Car (well minivan): 2011 Toyota Sienna, Base, 3.5 w/6 speaker system, no sat, no usb, no steering wheel controls.

Budget: $3,000ish - components only (HU,Amps,Woofers,DSP?) (wire and misc in separate budget).

(took years but I think I have enough for a somewhat good system)

What I have somewhat planned:

HU - Pioneer AppRadio4

Speakers - not decided yet (looking at 6.5 component 2-way sets for front and rear)

Amp1 - Ampere Audio 125.4 or Zapco ST-4D

Sub Amp - not sure but am leaning for a AA-3800.1

Subs - 2x AA Havoc 12" 1ohm DVC (wired for 1ohm) or just 1x 2ohm DVC wired at 1ohm

The space I have for a box is roughly 18 x 48 with trying to stay below the rear seats (roughly 32)

From what I have figured that gives me about 12-13ish cu ft inside space, using 3/4 mdf. Is this enough space for the 2 Havocs or should I just stick with 1. I would like to stay with 12's, kinda have always had them.

Also I was thinking about putting in a Zapco DSP-Z8, but DSP's are new to me. I like the idea of better sound control because most of hu's I have used I don't care for there preset EQ's much and only so much can be controlled by the amp.

I am not looking for anything video-wise, have a DD DVD HU in the wife's car and do not ever use it, so whats the point.

As far as speakers, I am looking for a good, kinda bright (so to speak, I like good loud clean highs) with mids that are there but not more then the highs.

I like the Knu products and after a bunch of searching on these forums I think I made a good choice. 1/0 both power n ground (I don't care for uni-body grounds, too many possibilities for bad grounds and feedback). I looked through their website and decided I would just get everything wire related from them (Power/ground fuse/link blocks, RCA's, batt cable ends, and speaker wire).

With the 3800 fused at 350A, I know that the stock 150A alt will not work so I have been looking for a HO alt, but not many places offer one for this, but I did find one here (Toyota Sienna High Output Alternators). Was going to get the 320A. What I am not sure about is reputation of the place. Also I do not plan on spending much time listening while at idle, mostly highway, going with just a XS batt be enough or will I have to add a second one?

Where I am not familiar with brands these days (at least higher end), I do understand that it is mostly a preference, I just don't want to spend a lot on sub-par equipment. I know that I could achieve a good sounding system with much, much less but I have been there, done that and want better. I also do not mind buying used, just not refurbed (kind of a preference of mine).

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[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

@Chris Davies ;
I have an 09 sienna running 4k. Speakers will be tough because the mounting depth for the door is harsh. Unless you do a flush mount with a few inch thick baffle. Focals are pretty clean and bright.

Hit up dc power, mechman or singer alts for a quality high output alt. Get with the biggest xspower battery you can fit under the hood, big 3 upgrades and that should be enough if you dont listen at idle, just turn it down if you ever stop, itll drop real quick. since the idle rpm on the sienna is very low you might want to mention it to the alt maker to modify it to make it work at a lower rpm or have an external regulator.

With that space you should do 2 18s and do a sonotube port, two 10 inch sonotubes will be enough port area, subs up port up . The difference between 12s and 18s, is that the 18s are louder across all frequency ranges and dont need to be tuned as low (im tuned at 36hz) with the box. My 18s can play metal to rap to rock easily and keep up with fast beats just fine. They are very efficient with power compared to 12s too. A lot more sound for the power you put into it. Trust me man, get 18s youll love the sh*t outta them. A sienna needs a lot of cone area to pressurize the cabin because of the huge cabin space, 12s wont satisfy you for long.

My box dimensions are 23.5 depth x 38 width(had to fit some batteries) and 35 height and its not even close to being past the passenger seats. Go with two ssa xcon/icon 18s they are pretty great for sql purposes. hair tricks and throat crushes on demand while having the ability to lower the sub volume and get a great sound quality experience. Go big or go home man.

 

[WhiteYota]

I know that 2011 was a body design change but I have not seen the others to compare, did you put your tweets in the factory location in the dash? Looking at some google pics, I see that the front is quite a bit different, my dash is much deeper and the door panels look to have more depth in them but that might just be cosmetic.

I never considered 18's, I was under the impression they required lots and lots of box. I looked at the xcon 12's, was thinking maybe 15's but if you think that if I have enough space for a box for 18's, why not right?

I was thinking I didn't have the room for the extra battery but if I can fit one in, I would not mind it. I was just stressing over box size.

Is your Singer alt a factory style frame or universal? I did not really want to deviate from stock mounting much.

Do you have your sub and ports facing forward or back, or something like subs back and ports forward. Sorry for asking so much but did you do anything to the stock suspension for the weight?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Port and subs face up loading against the hatch curve, creating a semi horn effect like you would get in hatchbacks.

so 2 18s will take up 37 inches of space counting the outer diameter, youll have space for two 10 inch sonotubes (google sonotube home depot) in the middle between the subs.

you can raise it up to 35 inches in height and 20 in depthand use round ports and 18s will work. I actually have the 18s and two group 31 batteries in the back along with two amps. The round ports will allow you to have plenty of airspace compared to a slot port.

The alts from the recommended companies are direct drop in, no modification needed, just match it with the proper belt.

I have my tweeters in tweeter pods that came with the tweeters mounted on the sail panel pointing straight at my ears, anything on the dash aimed at the windshield causes things to get harsh sounding.

I dont have any extra struts, the weight is close to 2 passengers so its not that bad. I would use birch ply instead of mdf, its worth the extra money money, a lot lighter and stronger.

 

[WhiteYota]

Hmm never used birch plywood, always mdf, even a little bit lighter while retaining the sturdiness is a plus.

I am looking at a starting point as far as how much sound deadening I am going to need, any suggestions on about how many sq I am going to need? (closest stereo shop to me is hour and half drive away or internet)

The only stuff I have used was dynamat (that was 15+ years ago), is it still a good product or is there others that are more bang(quieter lol) for the buck?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

@Chris Davies
Your biggest problem will be the roof and the rear 3rd row windows. Sound deadener wont do crap for the roof. You need to brace it with 1/2 plywood, stick it in between the crossbrace ribs and use silicone adhesive and great stuff expanding foam to prevent it from touching the metal surface. This was way cheaper and worked 10x better than two layers of deadener, roof is soo solid it can withstand me throwing full force haymakers at it. For doors and tailgate, You will most likely need a bulk pack of stinger expert roadkill for 99 dollars, the stuff is thicker and more quality than dynamat only requires 25% coverage to achieve great results.

For the 3rd row windows, id line everything up with thick weatherstrip foam tape from home depot because even when you lock it in, it will still flap around, the foam will stop that in its tracks. Along with the center sunglasses holder/passenger mirror on the roof, that needs either spray foam (what i used, no one will see whats underneath anyways) or a lot of closed cell/weatherstrip foam to stop the noises made, theres lots of metal pieces in the back that will vibrate against eachother. The rest is just spot treatments but those are the only issues of audible interior rattle i have.

Birch ply is waay lighter, the box for two 18s 12.5 cubic feet net, i can pick it up with one arm without the 18s in there. Its a lot stronger than mdf too, you still need bracing at proper areas though. Another good thing is screws stay in very nicely compared to mdf

 

[blazian87 10+ year member]

hey @Jeffdachef I saw the box that chris made for you. Looks SICK! Did you get your van metered yet?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

[quote name='blazian87']hey @Jeffdachef I saw the box that chris made for you. Looks SICK! Did you get your van metered yet?[/QUOTE]
Not yet man just played around with wiring the other day, so glad i made 8 terminals so i can switch the wiring outside of the box. I had my amps strapped at 1 ohm so .5 ohms each sub, wasnt that loud, switched it to each sub getting its own amp wired at 2 ohms and gain matched the amps, holy shiiiiit night and day difference. Need to get up a proper build log once i fix my computer, hard drive failure, picked up a samsung evo ssd =)

 

[blazian87 10+ year member]

Not yet man just played around with wiring the other day, so glad i made 8 terminals so i can switch the wiring outside of the box. I had my amps strapped at 1 ohm so .5 ohms each sub, wasnt that loud, switched it to each sub getting its own amp wired at 2 ohms and gain matched the amps, holy shiiiiit night and day difference. Need to get up a proper build log once i fix my computer, hard drive failure, picked up a samsung evo ssd =)

Wow.. I'll keep that in mind for a future build. Heard you might be heading to LA area sometime to show off your bass. Looking forward to checking it out when you do. Will be checking out your build log once you fix your hard drive lol..

 

[WhiteYota]

Hmm, I don't remember building ya a box but I'm glad that it turned out good and you liked it, lol

On the 3rd row windows, I'm kinda confused what you mean with the foam tape. Mine seal good, but the latches are what I am concerned with. They snap in all the way but it is too easy to pop them back open. I was going to do some more looking at them and maybe figure a way to tighten them up so they don't open as easy.

Did you do any deadening on the floor or firewall? I have like a 1 1/2 - 2 inch thick padding on my floor except under the 3rd row seats back.

I don't have the roof console on mine, just dome lights. One less thing to not have to stop from rattling is ok with me, lol

Maybe before I go gluing plywood into the roof I should get me a roof rack installed, Another joy of having a base model, no le,se,lt,xlt (well now it is gonna be a bass model hehe). From what I can tell from the carfax, it was custom ordered as a rental.

On the sub box - I have been using the 12.5 cu ft net that was suggested, plotting the xcon 18's I got about 25" long ports, that would tune it to just a hair under 33. SSA recommends 27-34 for these.

Is 10" under the ports to the bottom of the box ok, or how long could I make the ports on the 33.5" tall (inside measurement)

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

@Chris Davies
I have an 09 CE so its completely base model also, youll still need the dome lights deadened, thats a major problem area for me, nothing worse then having the rattle right above your right ear. I have not needed to deaden the firewall yet since no rattle problems in that area, if you want a quieter ride, use mass loaded vinyl instead.

Trust me, with a lot of bass, the 3rd row windows will be flapping like hummingbirds. The glass and metal will slap/vibrate against eachother on the low notes. You will need foam tape to decouple the surfaces.
On a side not, mines lock in pretty well even though the latch seems flimsy.

For the sub, you can go with whatever tuning you want based on your music preferences. If you listen to rock, metal, country, oldies, you wont want something that only does well on the super low notes. You can definitely tune higher if you want. The sub is pretty darn stiff so a higher tuning would not affect its ability to play lows much at all. 35 or 36 hz can definitely work still and net you some extra output, unless you prefer pure low low and slowed bass music that only plays below 30hz.. I had a zcon 12 tuned to 35hz in my old corolla and that thing sounded awesome on any genre. 23 inch port length would have close to 10 inches from the bottom and that would work fine.

Also chris is cscstang, another member on the forum lol guess you guys have the same name.

 

[WhiteYota]

Mostly into electronic (ie ATB, Deadmou5, Skrillex, Zedd) but listen to about everything rest of the time. Not much into country and rap (maybe a little hip/hop depends on tune).

Would it be better to run all new speaker wire or is the factory wire decent enough to use? (working on shopping lists)

As far as the rest of the wire, 1/0 Knu Kolossus Kandy Kable is what I was gonna use for all power except 4ch amp (4ga). What I picked for fuses: Alt(360A), Front batt to back batt (450A), 4ch amp (60A), sub amp (360A).

I know that Knu rates the 1/0 to 375A, would the 450A fuse still be ok or should I keep it the same as the wire. I know with smaller wire it just turns into something like a fusible link but at wire this size how much over is ok?

Another option I could do is 2 runs of 1/0, but then what would each run be fused at.

Is it a good idea to have a solenoid between the front and back batteries where they will be different group sizes (only dual batt experience I have is with diesels, and they are same size/rating).

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

@Chris Davies

I would keep the fuses similar to the cable, at 450 of current, your 1/0 might be getting a bit burnt and lose some performance as a result. With two runs, id keep the fusing same as the wire is rated for.
For edm and everything else, id recommend 36hz to 37hz tuning.
Just wire the batteries parallel with fusing and wire loom, no need for solenoid isolators unless you plan on listening with the car off.

I would run new speaker wire, the factory 20 gauge is pretty weak and limits power to the speakers. I gained a good amount of output and clarity when I replaced the speaker wire. You normally need 16 gauge ofc but i did 12 gauge anyways because of thats all i had on hand.

 

[WhiteYota]

Would 12ga be overkill, I would be buying new. That was the size I picked out before you mentioned it.

Would 50ft be enough wire to get me two runs, also need a little for the batt to fuse block and then amp, then the alt to front batt out of that 50ft roll.

I was planning on using Set Screw Ring Terminals - 1/0 Gauge Pair - Merchandise for end connections. Would 3 of these stacked on a xs power batt post cause power degradation or should I use a ground dist block.

I would not mind getting the stuff I need from some of the dealers here on the forums. Would I use the WTB forum or just browse around till I find someone that offers what I am looking for then PM them?

I am still planning atm, so I am just looking for information. I usually like to plan and make sure I am satisfied with what I planned on when making large purchases.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

I would say go with 12 gauge just in case you ever want to run crazy amounts of power to your mids and highs.
Id hitup @HomeGrown for some battery terminals that hold four or six 1/0 inputs.

Also are you running 2 runs of positive or are you running a run of positve and a dedicated negative ground? I used the chassis for the negative ground run on mines and works great, very low resistance. If you are planning on doing two runs of positive might think about using sky high 2/0 gauge, stuff is huge.

50 foot spool was enough for me to do the big 3 and wire the amps with some left over and yes you can make a WTB thread. Or search the classifieds, setup a paypal account if you havent already done so.