How to determine in phase vs. out of phase

[htsource 10+ year member]

Hi,

I have borrowed a sound meter which has the ability to determine if a speaker is in phase or out of phase. I have a 2-way setup in the front, and I did find my passenger side tweeter was wired out of phase based on that.

Should that device be point right up to the cone? I had it sort of in the listening position and it changes from + to -, so I don't know how I should point the mic at? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Its been a long time since Ive used one of those, but iirc it needs to be placed near the sound source.

 

[galacticmonkey 5,000+ posts]

WTF is a sound meter that determines phase?

Just touch the speaker wires to a 9v battery for a split second. Obviously dont do it with a tweeter or something. If the cone moves out, then you can see the + and -. If it goes in, you know its the opposite.

 

[Databyter 10+ year member]

WTF is a sound meter that determines phase?
Just touch the speaker wires to a 9v battery for a split second. Obviously dont do it with a tweeter or something. If the cone moves out, then you can see the + and -. If it goes in, you know its the opposite.

I'd start with a 1.5 V battery. It's enough to determine phase on most speakers, If you can't see movement then by all means work your way up.

And obviously a sound meter that measures phase, is a sound meter that determines phase. Pretty simple although I agree with your sentiment that it is a waste of money unless your in the business or something and don't want to dig through a big bundle of source wires.

 

[skittlesRgood 10+ year member]

lol you guys dont understand phase do you? your just talking about if you have + hooked up to + but some times hooking up a speaker "out of phase" will make it "in phase" at the listening position. if anyone has a phase switch on the mids/highs just fip it and see what difference it makes. for me it raised my sound stage above the dash and made a world of difference.

as for the meter, never used one. obviously it goes at the listening position. point it different directions and see if it says anything different.

the meter sounds like a manual time alignment. it just tells you what to change instead of a processer that would change it for you.

 

[keep_hope_alive Premium Member]

best way to know you have electrical phase correct is to properly label and color code your wires. acoustic phase is relative to the listening position, as previously stated.

you start with everything in electrical phase, all + to + and all - to -. then, you can play with switching electrical phase to adjust acoustic phase as you see fit.

don't use a 9V battery on anything but a sub. 1.5V is fine for a midrange/woofer. and don't use batteries on tweeters. tweeter wires are already labeled, just get it right with your wiring.

 

[power-fanatic07 5,000+ posts]

cliffs, if it sounds like **** they are out of phase.

 

[Databyter 10+ year member]

lol you guys dont understand phase do you? your just talking about if you have + hooked up to + but some times hooking up a speaker "out of phase" will make it "in phase" at the listening position. if anyone has a phase switch on the mids/highs just fip it and see what difference it makes. for me it raised my sound stage above the dash and made a world of difference.
as for the meter, never used one. obviously it goes at the listening position. point it different directions and see if it says anything different.

the meter sounds like a manual time alignment. it just tells you what to change instead of a processer that would change it for you.

Good point although for the average installation such as the one typically described in a car there is no difference.

I was wondering myself since I have rear firing sub if it would make a difference if I reversed, but since the rear of the speaker is blocked and the place it's pointed at reflects the pressure back effectively (rear hatch and compartment) it seems better to me phased consistant with typical polarity. I've tried it reversed and it still sounds decent but not quite as snappy. If I was in an open air ampitheater however then I could see the logic of reversing for coordinated bass response to adjust for direction.

 

[skittlesRgood 10+ year member]

Good point although for the average installation such as the one typically described in a car there is no difference.
I was wondering myself since I have rear firing sub if it would make a difference if I reversed, but since the rear of the speaker is blocked and the place it's pointed at reflects the pressure back effectively (rear hatch and compartment) it seems better to me phased consistant with typical polarity. I've tried it reversed and it still sounds decent but not quite as snappy. If I was in an open air ampitheater however then I could see the logic of reversing for coordinated bass response to adjust for direction.

it makes a big difference in a car. its harder to do with subs but the OP is talking about mids/highs. the phase will determine when the wave reaches your ear. if the waves reach your ear at different times then they are out of phase. like i said with time alignment, it adjusts phase. its all a SQ thing and most bass heads dont understand it. i didnt understand it until about a month ago when i got a lecture from an SQ judge lol.

 

[htsource 10+ year member]

I borrowed one of these from a guy for a short time, only had time to play with speaker polarity:

Sencore | SP295C SoundPro Audio Analyzer Contractor Version

There are many things that can be done with the device, but then I don't really know what I'm doing //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

Yes, I'm after for acoustic phase although now after all the cones are in phase, would like to see if adjusting phase could change anything. My listening position is pretty good, but the passenger side for some reason, it sounds like coming from the corner and low. I have tweeters mounted in the A pillars and mid-bass in the doors.

Thanks for your help.

 

[Wingman0121 10+ year member]

The easiest way to make sure the comp sets are in-phase is to make sure all the wires are correct in the beginning, but it is pretty hard to troubleshoot afterward. It is easy to tell if a coaxial speaker is out-of-phase because you'll hear more bass when you turn the balance all the way to the left or right, but things starts to get hairy for a comp set that has external crossovers and wiring for tweeters and woofers.

It is also kind of hard to tell if your main speakers are in or out of phase with your subwoofers unless you have a headunit that can flip the subwoofer polarity right up front.

 

[htsource 10+ year member]

I have gone through various upgrades, couldn't tell anymore if all the wires are correct. I'll try to borrow the meter again to test one more time. I believe I have the sub set correctly, from the headunit there's a switch so it flips the phase 180 and I measured the output and I took the louder setting.

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

tweets you probably wont' hear any difference and phase has little to no bearing at the frequencies a typical tweeter will be playing. Mids are the most important and it's VERY easy to tell which setting is better in most cases.

 

[Databyter 10+ year member]

it makes a big difference in a car. its harder to do with subs but the OP is talking about mids/highs. the phase will determine when the wave reaches your ear. if the waves reach your ear at different times then they are out of phase. like i said with time alignment, it adjusts phase. its all a SQ thing and most bass heads dont understand it. i didnt understand it until about a month ago when i got a lecture from an SQ judge lol.

Assuming the mids /highs are where they should be the phasing WILL match speaker polarity though for a typical installation. That is my original point. you will have coherent push towards the driver with all speakers hooked to matched polarities, hence a batt will do the trick.

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

Hmmm, ever asked an SQ competitor about that? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif