How do i model this in hornresp?

[isuckatcaraudio]

I want vented horn loaded speaker box in my car because of the loudness you can get from it. Now i don't get how im supposed to model this in hornresp, i have 2 speakers that share the same box in the back, but infront they have 2 separate horns, i have searched but not found any similar posts. HELP!

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[hispls 5,000+ posts]

That box in your picture does not appear to be a horn and IMO if you have the space to build a true horn that will function for subwoofer frequencies in a vehicle you may as well just flat wall. For point of reference you would need a 8 meter diameter mouth to build a proper horn that plays down to 20hz.

Folded horn speaker design - explanation and calculator

Horn loudspeakers are the best when it come to efficiency, but they are too big for woofers. The folded horn speaker design solves this.

audiojudgement.com

 

[akheathen Premium Member]

um, i just see a vented compact enclosure. im not sure you understand what a technical horn consists of. think of a horn, like is played in band. unwound, its like a 10-20foot port path. now visualize it, and think of how you are going to get that distance over 12-15 inches. that size box, you would need to drop from a pair of 12s to a single 8 and there MIGHT be enough space to fold in a horn.

 

[isuckatcaraudio]

um, i just see a vented compact enclosure. im not sure you understand what a technical horn consists of. think of a horn, like is played in band. unwound, its like a 10-20foot port path. now visualize it, and think of how you are going to get that distance over 12-15 inches. that size box, you would need to drop from a pair of 12s to a single 8 and there MIGHT be enough space to fold in a horn.

This is not a subwoofer enclosure it is a midrange enclosure designed to play about 70 - 4000 hertz, and im mostly trying to experiment with smaller horns like this because it is somewhat "trending" to build horn loaded midrange boxes in sweden, and most people say that with these small horns it plays alot louder than it would without horns. I know that these are incredibly small "horns" for 10 inch speakers but they are mostly there to make the sound waves point towards you.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

This is not a subwoofer enclosure it is a midrange enclosure designed to play about 70 - 4000 hertz, and im mostly trying to experiment with smaller horns like this because it is somewhat "trending" to build horn loaded midrange boxes in sweden, and most people say that with these small horns it plays alot louder than it would without horns. I know that these are incredibly small "horns" for 10 inch speakers but they are mostly there to make the sound waves point towards you.

That is still not a horn in your picture and where will this box be mounted? Up on the dashboard?

 

[isuckatcaraudio]

That is still not a horn in your picture and where will this box be mounted? Up on the dashboard?

I know its not a real horn but i might gain 1 or 2 decibels from it so why not. It will be mounted in the trunk so i can stay stationary and play out on meets etc. And it is 2 10 inch speakers in a 60 liter box so it wont even fit anywhere near the dashboard. Anyway we are getting out of topic, i asked how to model it in hornresp..

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

I know its not a real horn but i might gain 1 or 2 decibels from it so why not. It will be mounted in the trunk so i can stay stationary and play out on meets etc. And it is 2 10 inch speakers in a 60 liter box so it wont even fit anywhere near the dashboard. Anyway we are getting out of topic, i asked how to model it in hornresp..

You can't model that in hornsrep. It's not a horn. Hornsrep is for modeling horns.

If you want to make a horn and use hornsrep, do some research and figure out what a real horn is. Your enclosure is at best a ported enclosure.

Matt

 

[isuckatcaraudio]

You can't model that in hornsrep. It's not a horn. Hornsrep is for modeling horns.

If you want to make a horn and use hornsrep, do some research and figure out what a real horn is. Your enclosure is at best a ported enclosure.

Matt

althought that is possible to model in hornresp, you can model a 1 cm horn if you want there is really no limit in hornresp?

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

althought that is possible to model in hornresp, you can model a 1 cm horn if you want there is really no limit in hornresp?

But that isn't a horn and it has no components that will give it any of the efficiency gains that the impedance matching of a true horn would provide. If you own some efficient wideband 10" woofers just throw them in a sealed box and play them. You're not gaining anything until you have an actual horn with a throat, mouth, and a LONG tapered section in between.

 

[isuckatcaraudio]

But that isn't a horn and it has no components that will give it any of the efficiency gains that the impedance matching of a true horn would provide. If you own some efficient wideband 10" woofers just throw them in a sealed box and play them. You're not gaining anything until you have an actual horn with a throat, mouth, and a LONG tapered section in between.

Again my question was how i model it in hornresp not if its a horn or not. Im just trying to experiment with different boxes etc, lets call it a 6th order bandpass then with an insanely small front port. I dont care if i dont gain "real horn" effect from it i just want to experiment and see if it makes a difference, maybe i will gain 1 decibel. I will probably make another design of the box with a longer "port/horn" whatever, stop going off topic and be useful to me instead of wasting mine and your time.

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

Again my question was how i model it in hornresp not if its a horn or not. Im just trying to experiment with different boxes etc, lets call it a 6th order bandpass then with an insanely small front port. I dont care if i dont gain "real horn" effect from it i just want to experiment and see if it makes a difference, maybe i will gain 1 decibel. I will probably make another design of the box with a longer "port/horn" whatever, stop going off topic and be useful to me instead of wasting mine and your time.

OK, let me try to explain this in a way you can understand.

Step 1: download WinISD.
Step 2: Delete hornsrep
Step 3: use WinISD to design your PORTED ENCLOSURE.

We are being useful. We aren't going off topic. Your "horn" has no relation nor comparison to an actual horn that can be modeled using horn theory. If you want to waste your time, here ya go:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...4QFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1to78knyEOy3aWgmc2kqeq

[/URL]

You will gain nothing by making some Frankenstein hybrid monstrosity. Horns are very specific and require very accurate calculations. Change any one thing, and it's not going to work.

To have any semblance of a horn for a pair of 10" drivers you need roughly 12 cubic feet. Do some research before you run your mouth.

Matt

 

[mat3833 10+ year member]

This is what 2 types of horn look like.

A true horn(if I'm not mistaken)

And a front loaded(aka tapped) horn.

 

[akheathen Premium Member]

okay, heres what you do: as mentioned, try win isd. using hornresp for a ported enclosure (its not a bandpass either, unless you seal off in front of the speakers, which will kill your higher end)
now that you are calculating a vented encolsure, things will model much easier. years back, i came up with similar to what you are looking to do, dubbed "restriction port" on the inner side of the port, calculate the size more typical, like 12-14sq-in per cubic foot for your opening area. now, the other end of the port, all the way up to the restricted part can be 1.5-2.5x the sq-in for the straight port, or you should be able to use the same numbers to taper it like a horn. i simply use the restricted area as the area of the whole port to calculate length, ignoring the bigger area or taper of the port. iirc, it may be tuned slightly lower, like 1hz, so if you are going to tune it at the fs, you should ad 1 or 2hz to the tuning frequency, to be safe. i know that its a super efficient design, especially in bandpass encolsures, and tried to make it as simple of a cheat as i could for you. if you are still dead set on using horn resp, i never spent a lot of time on it, because theres not a lot of demand that came my way for that much space useage. its mostly for ht and pa setups. are you trying to do a pa speaker? thats almost a whole new realm, and i believe diyaudio is the place for that, instead if a vehicle enclosure section, where theres a lot more loading effects going on.

 

[isuckatcaraudio]

okay, heres what you do: as mentioned, try win isd. using hornresp for a ported enclosure (its not a bandpass either, unless you seal off in front of the speakers, which will kill your higher end)
now that you are calculating a vented encolsure, things will model much easier. years back, i came up with similar to what you are looking to do, dubbed "restriction port" on the inner side of the port, calculate the size more typical, like 12-14sq-in per cubic foot for your opening area. now, the other end of the port, all the way up to the restricted part can be 1.5-2.5x the sq-in for the straight port, or you should be able to use the same numbers to taper it like a horn. i simply use the restricted area as the area of the whole port to calculate length, ignoring the bigger area or taper of the port. iirc, it may be tuned slightly lower, like 1hz, so if you are going to tune it at the fs, you should ad 1 or 2hz to the tuning frequency, to be safe. i know that its a super efficient design, especially in bandpass encolsures, and tried to make it as simple of a cheat as i could for you. if you are still dead set on using horn resp, i never spent a lot of time on it, because theres not a lot of demand that came my way for that much space useage. its mostly for ht and pa setups. are you trying to do a pa speaker? thats almost a whole new realm, and i believe diyaudio is the place for that, instead if a vehicle enclosure section, where theres a lot more loading effects going on.

Thanks for the advice, i will try winisd as well, i have compared the responses between hornresp and winisd and they are basically the same only calculating a normal ported box. If i make a box with some type of port/horn whatever Infront of the speakers i will try to make something similar to this https://ds18.com/products/mid-diffuser-for-extremely-loud-sound-6 with multiple smaller "horns" and i am thinking of using PA speakers but i really don't know, i have all the space in the world in my car to use.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

We are being useful. We aren't going off topic. Your "horn" has no relation nor comparison to an actual horn that can be modeled using horn theory.

Yes, I also posted a link to horn theory that laid it out rather simply.

lets call it a 6th order bandpass then

If this is meant to be full range why would you bandpass? What frequency do you want to attenuate on the high end and why?

are you trying to do a pa speaker?

Near as I could get out of this, yes, that's what he is after.

Thanks for the advice, i will try winisd as well, i have compared the responses between hornresp and winisd and they are basically the same only calculating a normal ported box. If i make a box with some type of port/horn whatever Infront of the speakers i will try to make something similar to this https://ds18.com/products/mid-diffuser-for-extremely-loud-sound-6 with multiple smaller "horns" and i am thinking of using PA speakers but i really don't know, i have all the space in the world in my car to use.

I am doubtful that a horn with 2-3" length and a mouth that's only around 1.5X the diameter of the loudspeaker is going to give you any audible gains, but give it a whirl. That would be something that hornresp could accurately predict at least.
The fact remains, if you're not using a cargo van the space required to do a proper horn isn't going to be possible in a vehicle at all and if you are using a cargo van you'd do better to just use a large array of cheap and efficient speakers since those and amps are probably going to wind up cheaper and simpler to manage than constructing some 20 cubic foot midrange horn arrangement.