How did i blow my 12inch Kicker Solo X?

[n8skow 10+ year member]

Ironically, I have just as many round 'failures' as squares at the moment... (none of them being cone issues)

Beside me here I currently have 3-SAs and 3-Zv3s in need of recones... the SA's all having surround failures, surround failure on one of the Zv3's, and burnt coils on the other two. =(

As long as you are happy with the durability of your subs, that is the main thing, I just dislike the design for reasons stated above.

 

[Chriszle 10+ year member]

The additional cone area is a nice 'free' gain (in terms of SPL). Sony and Xtant tried similar cone area gains on their pentagonal woofers, Boston Acoustics with their ovals, JL with their oversized woofers, etc...
And I would agree - I don't anticipate DD, Sundown, IA, TC sounds, etc. doing squares - but the high cost of custom tooling is probably as much a deterrent as their lack of interest... with the exception of Sundown mentioned in that list - I wouldn't really call any of those other brands high-volume producers, more niche oriented brands - so you also have to weigh the economical considerations of how long it would taking a smaller company to jump into producing something completely foreign to their existing production lines.

You are probably aware there 'are' other companies that have followed though, MTX, Cadence, MB Quart, Hifonics, Pyle, PowerAcoustik - all offer squares... There's a lot more brands out there than just whats popular on the forums here =)

You are correct, I am aware of other companies using the same design. My guess is they seen the popularity in the Kickers and imitated them at a lower cost trying get a "piece of the Kicker pie" (see what I did there), not because it is a good design. The gain in cone area also means a larger box requirement coincidentally occurs when stepping up to round sub of larger diameter. The tooling cost mentioned could be a possibility, however, tooling cost wouldn't be an issue as all manufacturers made square woofers (which in my mind, if square was better, round subs would be almost obsolete by this point).

 

[Chriszle 10+ year member]

Your words "the mechanical limits of a square cone may limit the driver more than the thermal capability of the coil"...What is the limitation? We're going in circles here...

Notice that I said may limit, those are the key words. Throughout this discussion, I presented the reasons why it may. I am glad Kicker took care of the issue. I do remember hearing about a lot of issues early on with the cone failiure. My contention is that the design presents unnecessary stress on the soft parts. If the soft parts are up to the task, you shouldn't ever have issues.

 

[n8skow 10+ year member]

Mmmmmm, pie. =)

If the other companies are just trying to cut in on Kicker's market share - why not target one of their higher volume models? The L7 is actually not their top seller... (that would be the CompVR), though arguably it may be their most recognized woofer.

Unnecessary stress?

Have you never seen a round woofer surround pucker at high excursion? It's not a pretty sight... The ribbing on Kicker's squares controls where the crumpling occurs - on a round woofer - it happens wherever it wants. I would argue that it's actually much more controlled versus a round woofer.

Physical stress and distortion is going to be a consideration regardless of the shape - just doesn't make sense to me why your hung up on one particular style woofer...

Food for thought:

View attachment 26546020

Notice that I said may limit, those are the key words. Throughout this discussion, I presented the reasons why it may. I am glad Kicker took care of the issue. I do remember hearing about a lot of issues early on with the cone failiure. My contention is that the design presents unnecessary stress on the soft parts. If the soft parts are up to the task, you shouldn't ever have issues.

 

[Chriszle 10+ year member]

Mmmmmm, pie. =)If the other companies are just trying to cut in on Kicker's market share - why not target one of their higher volume models? The L7 is actually not their top seller... (that would be the CompVR), though arguably it may be their most recognized woofer.

Unnecessary stress?

Have you never seen a round woofer surround pucker at high excursion? It's not a pretty sight... The ribbing on Kicker's squares controls where the crumpling occurs - on a round woofer - it happens wherever it wants. I would argue that it's actually much more controlled versus a round woofer.

Physical stress and distortion is going to be a consideration regardless of the shape - just doesn't make sense to me why your hung up on one particular style woofer...

Food for thought:

View attachment 26546020

That pic is great. I'm not hung up on the design man. You asked questions, I explained my reasoning. To each their own, as long as you are happy that is the main thing. I know I am happy rocking my round subs, so to each their own. Have a great holiday weekend.

 

[blobb454 10+ year member]

I know there are a few threads already on here about this topic so I wont beat on a horse but... With motor force and such, with a square surround and ribbing reinforcement, is it even possible to get an "even force" with such a surround? I would think the consistency in the materials of the surround, (possibly not being exactly even like a round surround) it would pull/push at an uneven force causing stress on the coils?

 

[n8skow 10+ year member]

Where are these threads you refer to?

Point for thought - if the surround wasn't keeping the cone aligned (along with the spiders keeping the former/coil aligned), the woofer simply wouldn't work. You'd grind the coils down to the former after a few moments of playing - same as a round woofer.

My whole point has been - 'where' is the evidence showing they don't work (where the shape of the cone was the cause of a woofer dying)? All I've been able to find is the perpetuation of "squares don't load evenly" or something to that effect, no actual proof.

@Chriszle - happy holiday weekend to you man.

I know there are a few threads already on here about this topic so I wont beat on a horse but... With motor force and such, with a square surround and ribbing reinforcement, is it even possible to get an "even force" with such a surround? I would think the consistency in the materials of the surround, (possibly not being exactly even like a round surround) it would pull/push at an uneven force causing stress on the coils?

 

[blobb454 10+ year member]

[quote name='n8skow']Where are these threads you refer to?

Point for thought - if the surround wasn't keeping the cone aligned (along with the spiders keeping the former/coil aligned), the woofer simply wouldn't work. You'd grind the coils down to the former after a few moments of playing - same as a round woofer.

My whole point has been - 'where' is the evidence showing they don't work (where the shape of the cone was the cause of a woofer dying)? All I've been able to find is the perpetuation of "squares don't load evenly" or something to that effect, no actual proof.

@Chriszle - happy holiday weekend to you man.[/QUOTE]

Thanks! Happy holiday to you as well! I wish I knew what thread it was cause it was a great read. A lot of members that havent been on here in some time are very knowledged and have very valid points/examples.

I myself am not stating squares are not good or incapable of performing. I had a Kicker L3 once upon a time and it was very decent. It didnt like a ton of power but it was a decent sub.
@SPLaudio; builds them, he probably has some input on them.

 

[n8skow 10+ year member]

Cool, I'll keep digging around, but so far, no luck.
Happy Friday! I'm out of here! =)

[quote name='blobb454']Thanks! Happy holiday to you as well! I wish I knew what thread it was cause it was a great read. A lot of members that havent been on here in some time are very knowledged and have very valid points/examples.

I myself am not stating squares are not good or incapable of performing. I had a Kicker L3 once upon a time and it was very decent. It didnt like a ton of power but it was a decent sub.
@SPLaudio; builds them, he probably has some input on them.[/QUOTE]

 

[SPLaudio 5,000+ posts]

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