honda accord burning oil/leaking

Sounds like it could be any of, or any combination of, the following:

Bad crankcase ventilation (PCV) system... if it's stopped up, crankcase pressure will force oil past the seals. But, ONLY when driving... when the engine is idling, it won't have enough pressure to leak.

Bad valve-cover gaskets... IME, Honda valvecover gaskets are FTL after about 5-10 years. Expect to change it. Fortunately, it's usually a very easy job...

Bad oil pressure sending unit... there again, it'll leak MORE at speed (higher RPM== higher oil pressure). GET THIS FIXED IMMEDIATELY if someone finds this problem! If the sending unit blows out, it'll dump out ALL the oil IMMEDIATELY, and the engine will be FUBAR.

Loose/leaking oil filter... same symptoms as the oil pressure sending unit, but MUCH easier to fix (tighten/replace the oil filter).

The problem causing the black smoke COULD be contributing to the problem. If it's running rich, you CAN get raw gas in the oil, which can over-flow the crankcase and force the oil out of the engine. Then, as the gasoline evaporates, the oil level wil be low. I'd get that fixed. Probably something like a temperature sensor or throttle position sensor, or maybe as simple as a severely clogged air filter...

Regards,

Gordon.

 
Nice... my 11 almost 12 yr old accord is still running strong. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif Except, I do ahve that "sweet" smell once in a while.... but i dont burn anything... I barely have any oil leaks.
Check for seepage from the radiator, where the plastic tanks clamp onto the aluminum core. Had the same problem on many Japanese cars. Sometimes you can clamp the "fingers" holding the tank on tighter (using something like vise-grips)... but even if the radiator needs to be replaced, it's usually not expensive (the on for my '94 Mazda Protege was only like $125, from Autozone or wherever)...

Regards,

Gordon.

 
Sounds like it could be any of, or any combination of, the following:
Bad crankcase ventilation (PCV) system... if it's stopped up, crankcase pressure will force oil past the seals. But, ONLY when driving... when the engine is idling, it won't have enough pressure to leak.

Bad valve-cover gaskets... IME, Honda valvecover gaskets are FTL after about 5-10 years. Expect to change it. Fortunately, it's usually a very easy job...

Bad oil pressure sending unit... there again, it'll leak MORE at speed (higher RPM== higher oil pressure). GET THIS FIXED IMMEDIATELY if someone finds this problem! If the sending unit blows out, it'll dump out ALL the oil IMMEDIATELY, and the engine will be FUBAR.

Loose/leaking oil filter... same symptoms as the oil pressure sending unit, but MUCH easier to fix (tighten/replace the oil filter).

The problem causing the black smoke COULD be contributing to the problem. If it's running rich, you CAN get raw gas in the oil, which can over-flow the crankcase and force the oil out of the engine. Then, as the gasoline evaporates, the oil level wil be low. I'd get that fixed. Probably something like a temperature sensor or throttle position sensor, or maybe as simple as a severely clogged air filter...

Regards,

Gordon.
thanks a ton! i guess i need to have my car checked out by a mechanic?

hey try some of this stuff. http://www.auto-rx.com suppose to work really well. i just did an application in my wagon this morning (as maintenance). i've read good things about it from a gm b-body forum.
any other opinions on this? what about seafoam?

i'd love to try something like this before i go pay a mechanic $100 to tell me he has to do $500 worth of work //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 
well, i put a half a can of seafoam in my oil and half in my gas tank.

no smoke or anything like some of the posts i've seen online.

i'm only 500 miles into my last oil change. is it ok to wait until 3k before i change it again?

the guys at o'reilly's said i didn't have to change the oil right after, and so did a random guy standing in the checkout line. they all swore that it worked great //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 
thats weird I have a 99 accord 4 door with 256k and going and it never had anything like that happen luckily! And im not the easiest on it...lol

 
i got it used about 6 months ago and it's been doing it the entire time. i have no idea what kind of hell the other owners put it through.

there wasn't any maintenance record but the carfax report is clean.

i really hope this helps in some way. i don't really have the money to get it fixed properly at the moment. maybe next summer i'll be able to get it taken care of.

 
i have a 99 honda accord I4 2.3L with a manual transmission.
everytime i fill up my gas tank (300-400 miles) i have to put about 1 quart of oil in!

i don't get enough leaking to puddle under my car, but last time my car was in the shop the mechanic said it could be leaking a bit around the headgasket. also, if i accelerate hard (5-6k+ rmps) i can see some black smoke out of the tailpipe, but none under normal driving (and i don't accelerate like that very often).

is this something i should be concerned with, or should i just keep adding oil?

is there anything i can do (cheaply) to try and help?

i don't think i have the money to get the headgasket changed at the moment. i have tried going from 5w-30 to 10w-30, but it didn't help. i will be going back to 5w-30 for the next oil change (winter).

thanks!

also, can anyone recommend me to any good honda tech sites?
Before you do anything, take it to a dealership and ask if you can have a slack tube ran on it.

You burning oil could possibly be a simple PCV mishap. I've seen cars burn oil with a bad PCV valve. Or with rotted hoses. Usually the PCV valve is located on top of the valve cover. Pop it off and give it a shake or I just blow air. You should hear it clicking, that is simply the valve.

 
Finally, a thread I can possibly help with. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif FIRST of all, never take any vehicle to a mechanic; find a certified automotive technician! There is a diff. In short, VERY little is purely mechanical these days. The mentiond vehicle is what we call an On Board Diagnostics version 2 (OBD2) vehicle, and I can promise you the EPA placed a ton of electronics into this accord.

As for Hondas, I've dealt with nothing but them from the 88 model accords and preludes on up to around the 2001 models. If there's one thing I can promise you, it's that after many many miles, valve guide seals will start to leak. If you have a previously missabused engine, excessive piston ring wear can lead to some premature oil loss as well. As for the smoke concern, one of the previous posters were correct about the colors of smoke; blue is typically your oil burning. White would be antifreeze and the black is usually caused from burning very rich (too much gas). It sounds to me, from a professional stand point, that you have a few possible concerns.

As for the oil leak, if it's not externally leaking then that's what we call oil consumption. There aren't too many places oil can go except through the engine or on the ground (obviously), and there are some FAR CHEAPER alternatives than trying to get silly and swap a head gasket. Anytime I get an oil loss/consumption concern, I will install a bottle of dye (a few ounces) in the oil (simply poor it in rather), and run the vehicle for a few min. In the 60's black lights became very popular, and just like back then, black lights can still turn dye neat colors. If you get in a dark enough area and take a black light to your car's engine, and assuming you have an external leak, you'll locate it pretty quickly with a florecent looking purple or green liquid (dyed engine oil, any viscosity).

Positive Crankcase Ventalation valves (PCV Valves) are probably never ever changed out enough on vehicles; I recomend them every 15k miles. This is a VERY common method of entry for oil into the engine!! If you've ever pulled an air cleaner/filter from the throttle body and seen all the black junk on the throttle plate, then you can now be assured that you're looking at oil. Oil does not combust in the engine, and causes problems. When those PCV Valves stick open, the rushing air past their outlet (designed only to exhale bad fumes from the crank case into the engine, not oil), then the extra rushing air past this valve will **** oil or anything else through it and into the engine itself. If it sticks closed, the inlet for the frest air (pre throttle body) into the valve cover/crank case provides the suction to pull the oil out and inject it into the engine. My recomendation is to replace the sub $5 PCV Valve and to take a can of B12 chemtool and hose down the throttle body and to open it and hose it down inside as well. Most likely the oil is there regardless of this being the concern or not with the oil consumption. $20 or less and about 10 to 15 min. in labor can save a lot of heart aches and pains at a repair facility.

Sea Foam is something I use all the time in problematic vehicles because it'll clean out all that oil from inside the engine itself and not to mention decarbonize the combustion chamgers and valves some. It's about $5 at any Oreilly Auto Parts store or Autozone; white can full of liquid. I do not recomend putting it in your oil though. This may clean out the engine some, but if you have any grooves in the cyl. walls where the pistons travel, then you risk opening those up and loosing compression (not something you want to risk with an unknown record of the vehicles maintenace records from the past). Plus, any modifiers to the oil will cause the viscosity properties to break up and change; not a common practice I recomend. If you use this product, use it through the large vacuume hose going to the brake booster with the engine runing and SLOWLY poor it in. If not done slowly, you can vapor lock the engine! If you actually do this, please be in a well ventalated area as you'll cause smoke like you never thought possible. hehe it'll be there for a while till everything is cleaned out (I do this about every 30k miles or so).

Now to the main point, and the end of my post. If you're burning black smoke, it's most likely a running rich concern, not oil. Rich = too much gas, not enough air. Your oxygen sensors pick up on the 4 gasses out of the combustion chamer and will either recomend more fuel or less fuel to keep from having the concern that you're experiancing. MOST of the time, if you're experiancing black smoke (even in the upper RPM'S only), you should have a check engine light either on, or sitting there with a pending trouble code in memory waiting to trigger the light itself to come on. If you don't see this amber (yellow) light on, then do a bulb check. Simply turn the key on (engine off) and make sure that the Check Engine Light illuminates. Just because the light doesn't come on doesn't mean there isn't a trouble code in there denoting a fault.

The EPA is very strict about what can and can not set a check engine light off. There must be 2000 trouble codes out there for all OBD2 vehicles (mandatory on 1996 to current models), and those code numbers help people like me find the cause of problems like this. I know I'm not there to look at your car, but I think you have 2 concerns rather than one. Try changing spark plugs as they control the burn of your spent fuel. Anything ignition related is cheaper than changing a head gasket!! Cans of cleaner are great like the 2 above (Seafoam is great in the gas tank BTW), and the few min. of labor inserting those is also cheaper than a head gasket. The #1 cause to any loss of air, too much fuel (running rich) concern would be a restricted air filter; check it! That item, as you may have guessed, is also cheaper than replacing a stupid expensive head gasket. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Retiming the engine when you pull a head (your's is a V6 and has 2 heads) is cause for great skill and shouldn't be attempted by just anyone. In closing, don't be afraid to try the more simple items rather than to automatically assume it's something stupid crazy expensive. If you need any further assistance, or have any Q's and I'm not on this site (and I'm not all that often), feel free to IM me on AIM at sugar2mtb (screen name); I'll be more than glad to help. Best of luck!

Ps. SORRY FOR THE LONG POST!!!

Dustin

 
Finally, a thread I can possibly help with. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif FIRST of all, never take any vehicle to a mechanic; find a certified automotive technician! There is a diff. In short, VERY little is purely mechanical these days. The mentiond vehicle is what we call an On Board Diagnostics version 2 (OBD2) vehicle, and I can promise you the EPA placed a ton of electronics into this accord.
As for Hondas, I've dealt with nothing but them from the 88 model accords and preludes on up to around the 2001 models. If there's one thing I can promise you, it's that after many many miles, valve guide seals will start to leak. If you have a previously missabused engine, excessive piston ring wear can lead to some premature oil loss as well. As for the smoke concern, one of the previous posters were correct about the colors of smoke; blue is typically your oil burning. White would be antifreeze and the black is usually caused from burning very rich (too much gas). It sounds to me, from a professional stand point, that you have a few possible concerns.

As for the oil leak, if it's not externally leaking then that's what we call oil consumption. There aren't too many places oil can go except through the engine or on the ground (obviously), and there are some FAR CHEAPER alternatives than trying to get silly and swap a head gasket. Anytime I get an oil loss/consumption concern, I will install a bottle of dye (a few ounces) in the oil (simply poor it in rather), and run the vehicle for a few min. In the 60's black lights became very popular, and just like back then, black lights can still turn dye neat colors. If you get in a dark enough area and take a black light to your car's engine, and assuming you have an external leak, you'll locate it pretty quickly with a florecent looking purple or green liquid (dyed engine oil, any viscosity).

Positive Crankcase Ventalation valves (PCV Valves) are probably never ever changed out enough on vehicles; I recomend them every 15k miles. This is a VERY common method of entry for oil into the engine!! If you've ever pulled an air cleaner/filter from the throttle body and seen all the black junk on the throttle plate, then you can now be assured that you're looking at oil. Oil does not combust in the engine, and causes problems. When those PCV Valves stick open, the rushing air past their outlet (designed only to exhale bad fumes from the crank case into the engine, not oil), then the extra rushing air past this valve will **** oil or anything else through it and into the engine itself. If it sticks closed, the inlet for the frest air (pre throttle body) into the valve cover/crank case provides the suction to pull the oil out and inject it into the engine. My recomendation is to replace the sub $5 PCV Valve and to take a can of B12 chemtool and hose down the throttle body and to open it and hose it down inside as well. Most likely the oil is there regardless of this being the concern or not with the oil consumption. $20 or less and about 10 to 15 min. in labor can save a lot of heart aches and pains at a repair facility.

Sea Foam is something I use all the time in problematic vehicles because it'll clean out all that oil from inside the engine itself and not to mention decarbonize the combustion chamgers and valves some. It's about $5 at any Oreilly Auto Parts store or Autozone; white can full of liquid. I do not recomend putting it in your oil though. This may clean out the engine some, but if you have any grooves in the cyl. walls where the pistons travel, then you risk opening those up and loosing compression (not something you want to risk with an unknown record of the vehicles maintenace records from the past). Plus, any modifiers to the oil will cause the viscosity properties to break up and change; not a common practice I recomend. If you use this product, use it through the large vacuume hose going to the brake booster with the engine runing and SLOWLY poor it in. If not done slowly, you can vapor lock the engine! If you actually do this, please be in a well ventalated area as you'll cause smoke like you never thought possible. hehe it'll be there for a while till everything is cleaned out (I do this about every 30k miles or so).

Now to the main point, and the end of my post. If you're burning black smoke, it's most likely a running rich concern, not oil. Rich = too much gas, not enough air. Your oxygen sensors pick up on the 4 gasses out of the combustion chamer and will either recomend more fuel or less fuel to keep from having the concern that you're experiancing. MOST of the time, if you're experiancing black smoke (even in the upper RPM'S only), you should have a check engine light either on, or sitting there with a pending trouble code in memory waiting to trigger the light itself to come on. If you don't see this amber (yellow) light on, then do a bulb check. Simply turn the key on (engine off) and make sure that the Check Engine Light illuminates. Just because the light doesn't come on doesn't mean there isn't a trouble code in there denoting a fault.

The EPA is very strict about what can and can not set a check engine light off. There must be 2000 trouble codes out there for all OBD2 vehicles (mandatory on 1996 to current models), and those code numbers help people like me find the cause of problems like this. I know I'm not there to look at your car, but I think you have 2 concerns rather than one. Try changing spark plugs as they control the burn of your spent fuel. Anything ignition related is cheaper than changing a head gasket!! Cans of cleaner are great like the 2 above (Seafoam is great in the gas tank BTW), and the few min. of labor inserting those is also cheaper than a head gasket. The #1 cause to any loss of air, too much fuel (running rich) concern would be a restricted air filter; check it! That item, as you may have guessed, is also cheaper than replacing a stupid expensive head gasket. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Retiming the engine when you pull a head (your's is a V6 and has 2 heads) is cause for great skill and shouldn't be attempted by just anyone. In closing, don't be afraid to try the more simple items rather than to automatically assume it's something stupid crazy expensive. If you need any further assistance, or have any Q's and I'm not on this site (and I'm not all that often), feel free to IM me on AIM at sugar2mtb (screen name); I'll be more than glad to help. Best of luck!

Ps. SORRY FOR THE LONG POST!!!

Dustin

You must be a Technician.

If so, thats where I'm headin.

 
Yep, and I had to take 2 ASE Certification exams tonight; Automatic and Manual Transmissions. If I pass these two, then I'll be Master ASE Certified. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif I love what I do and encourage everyone in this field to get as much out of it as you can. One thing is FOR SURE, the demand for transporation needs will never go away; the demand for technicians happens to be really high right now. Best of luck to ya! It's one of the few fields where an employer will send you to schools at their expense.

Dustin

 
WOW!

thanks for the great post.

i forgot about this thread.

i (seemingly unfortunately) put seafoam into my oil. didn't seem to change anything, though.

any tutorials (w/pics if possible) on how to do the PCV valve switchout?

or should i get one of those books they have at o'rielly's?

also, i think you're onto something with the 'running rich' theory.

my check engine light will come on when i open up the throttle (usually trying to accelerate in 5th gear, when i should downshift).

the code comes up as a cylinder misfiring, so i got my plugs replaced. still happened.

the mechanic couldn't get the condition to replicate with him driving (or with me driving while he was with), so he said he couldn't do anything about it.

he suggested using more gear (higher rpm's) and less throttle. did that for about a month and it killed my gas mileage (from upper 20's to lower 20's), so i'm switching back to granny-driving //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

i will also make sure to change the air filter, i have no idea when it was last done //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif (not in the last 6 months at least.)

as for re-timing, i actually have a 4cyl, but it didn't sound like that was a good option anyways.

so for now:

pcv valve replacement

air filter replacement

other suggestions.........

where would i get replacement pcv valves? how many?

what do you suggest about the misfiring?

thanks again for all the help! these both seem like good (cheap) options for me to try first (hopefully i can figure out what a pcv valve is and how to change it).

 
I'll look up a link in a few, copy an image to my site and hyper link you to for the placement of the PCV. If it's anthing like the ol' Preludes, they are right on top of the engine's valve cover. Most of the newer accords are V6's, so as for yours being a 4, my apology. :p Just give me a few min. and I'll look that up for ya and post it back here.

Dustin

 
WOW!
thanks for the great post.

i forgot about this thread.

i (seemingly unfortunately) put seafoam into my oil. didn't seem to change anything, though.

any tutorials (w/pics if possible) on how to do the PCV valve switchout?

or should i get one of those books they have at o'rielly's?

also, i think you're onto something with the 'running rich' theory.

my check engine light will come on when i open up the throttle (usually trying to accelerate in 5th gear, when i should downshift).

the code comes up as a cylinder misfiring, so i got my plugs replaced. still happened.

the mechanic couldn't get the condition to replicate with him driving (or with me driving while he was with), so he said he couldn't do anything about it.

he suggested using more gear (higher rpm's) and less throttle. did that for about a month and it killed my gas mileage (from upper 20's to lower 20's), so i'm switching back to granny-driving //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

i will also make sure to change the air filter, i have no idea when it was last done //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crap.gif.7f4dd41e3e9b23fbd170a1ee6f65cecc.gif (not in the last 6 months at least.)

as for re-timing, i actually have a 4cyl, but it didn't sound like that was a good option anyways.

so for now:

pcv valve replacement

air filter replacement

other suggestions.........

where would i get replacement pcv valves? how many?

what do you suggest about the misfiring?

thanks again for all the help! these both seem like good (cheap) options for me to try first (hopefully i can figure out what a pcv valve is and how to change it).
Sounds to me like you are runnning a bit rich, which would cause you to misfire under a load. As far as the PCV valve, the auto parts store coul dpoint you in the right direction, and picking up a repair manual is critical for proper maintenance on any car. BTW, running rich will reduce your mileage indefinately.

I love cars. I hope to go to nashville auto diesel, or UTI.

 
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