hey republicans

[double 07 10+ year member]

You realize it's possible to have neither 100% capitalism nor 100% socialism, right? You realize that our economy is currently a mix between capitalism and socialism, right? This is why it's impossible to actually have a productive discussion with most conservatives, because instead of them living in the real world and basing their arguments off of it, they just fabricate a reality where every liberal just wants sure socialism and a complete destruction capitalism.
Yes, socialism is bad. Pure socialism. By that same token, so is capitalism. PURE capitalism. Can you understand the different between socialism, capitalism and a mixed economy?

Yes, because being taxed 50% of $1,000,000 is just so much worse than only being taxed 10% on $50,000 income. Rich people have it so hard.

Like MisterDeadeye said, you're basing your arguments on factless emotion. Argue with facts. Taxes on the rich are much less than when our economy was booming and the middle class was stronger.

My question to you is......How many of your payroll checks have been backed up or signed by an underprivileged person?.....Does the owner of the company you work for know that you consider him the enemy?........If you say you don't consider him the enemy then why does it sound that way?........."The rich have it so bad"......and a millionaire being taxed at 50% isn't enough......good luck with that outlook on life......Hope you don't find yourself in an unemployment line someday.......

When did I say that the RICH shouldn't pay any taxes?...........I am simply stating a fact that is public record.....The top earners in this country pay almost 40% of the taxes that are currently collected!!!!!...........At what % of tax rate per their income are you guys going to be happy with?......Have you ever thought about the consequences of such actions?.....Wealthy people are the employers in this country and most of them are smart enough to figure out how to keep the bottom line intact.........Higher taxes will result in LAYOFFS and hours reduced!!!!!........This is not emotion.....It is a FACT.........Business owners (wealthy) have to keep a PROFIT margin and when something affects that margin they are going to ADJUST something......Usually the adjustment involves a price hike for their service or product offered & unfortunately sometimes it's layoffs and hours cut for it's employees..........What will it take for some of you guys to see this?.........Double digit unemployment?

I am NOT wealthy and the reason I defend them is because of jobs in this country...they provide a lot of them including my FULL TIME job.....I don't agree with everything my wealthy employer does but they have provided me with a job that allows me to live comfortably and higher taxes and the crap you guys are slinging hurt them.....You think I want to be in an unemployment line because you think a 50% tax on my employer's income isn't enough?.........From the sound s of it if a 50% tax isn't enough for you then it sounds like the wealthy aren't the GREEDY ones after all.....

and about the Socialism thing.......I have NO PROBLEM with social programs........They help.......It's just the ones in this country need a GOOD HOUSE CLEANING done.........Their are several states RIGHT now trying to pass welfare reform and have people getting welfare to start taking drug tests.......Wanna guess whom is fighting that policy?........Welfare in this country has turned into a way of life for some people because it is easier to sit on their ***** and draw unemployment.......There are people turning down minimum wage jobs because they can draw more with unemployment.....Is that fair to me and you?......Welfare is a good thing if it is not abused....It is meant to help people out in hard times not a permanent solution.......I was on Gov assistance about 20 years ago for about a year while my kids were real young and it helped me out a lot but as soon as I could get OFF of it I did because that opens up the opportunity for someone else to use it.......

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

Higher taxes will result in LAYOFFS and hours reduced!!!!!........This is not emotion.....It is a FACT......

Over simplified notion that sounds good until thought it provided. False based on two facts:

1) Taxes are, in effect, only of profits. Operating costs, mainly payroll, are tax deductible. If my revenue is $500k and my payroll is $300k, excluding all other expenses I'm only paying taxes on $200k. Let's say the tax rate is 50% (WAY higher than in reality), I'm paying $100k in taxes with $100k leftover. But then I need $150k more in payroll to account for more customers in order to increase my revenue. But I only have $100k?! But oh wait, the $150k is deductible so despite taxes, I can still add $150k to payroll and then only pay taxes on the remaining $50k. (And after of course, that expectation is that the added employees will increase the potential for revenue so revenue would increase past the original $500k)

2) Number of employees is based on one thing and one thing only: Number of customers needed to serve. A business will only hire as many employees they need to serve their customers. This follows common sense. If a company needs 1 employee per day per 20 daily customers and they have 100 customers, then there is no reason to have more than 5 employees per day, period. The only way to get that employer to high more is to get people into the business.

So it logically follows that A) decreasing taxes on the rich doesn't create any jobs and B) Increasing taxes on the rich won't "destroy" jobs. Trickle down doesn't work. Economic policy needs to start with the bottom up. That is the liberal approach that Democrats favor. Republicans just want to cut taxes for the rich.

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

have people getting welfare to start taking drug tests.......Wanna guess whom is fighting that policy?

Smart people? Florida tried drug testing for welfare a year or two ago. They got rid of it. Why? Because it COST them money. They had to reimburse the people who paid for drugs tests and passed. Want to know how many people failed? Something like 2-2.5%. The cost of reimbursing the people who passed outweighed the savings from not providing welfare to those who failed. And what did most fail for? Weed. Big deal.

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

My question to you is......How many of your payroll checks have been backed up or signed by an underprivileged person?

All of them? Where do you think businesses get most of their money from? Working class/"underprivileged" people buying their products/services.

But then where did those people get the money to spend on products/services? Paychecks. And so on and so on. Obviously it's a cycle. And the faster money is flowing through that cycle, the better off EVERYONE is. It's not about how much money the rich have in their savings accounts, it's about how much money is being spent by the working class (say, 90% of people?) That's the point of wealth redistribution. It gets money back from the businesses to the working class, so they have more money to spend. Ao you have more people spending money, and then you have more people working. More people working = more money being spent. And so on and so on. Welcome to the liberal biased economics of reality.

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

Ok.......How do we get unemployment down?

Please explain why the liberal policies of the current administration hasn't brought it down.....and please don't say GEORGE BUSH because that story line is getting old.....and if my memory serves me correctly the Democrats had control of both houses during the infamous Bush administration so don't forget to give them a piece of the blame because as you guys put it the president can't be blamed for everything...Congress is a big part of it.....And please refrain from blaming it on the Republicans that currently have the HOUSE because for the first 2 years of this administration's time the DEMS had both houses and what did they concentrate on fixing from the BUSH term...was it jobs?........Nope....they spent all of their energies and time to push through the largest most expensive bill ever the ACA......Trust me the consequences from the ACA will be at the American people's dinner table in the next few years because common freaking sense dictates that you can not INSURE MILLIONS of more people and the cost go down for everyone.......I don't what kind of calculator was used on that one.........Oh and when they (DEMS) was in the process of passing the bill, Nancy Pelosi said "let's just pass the bill and then we can see what is in it".....You guys are shitting me right.....We should be passing bills that haven't even been READ and you guys back these kinds of people and this comes from an administration that was going to be the MOST TRANSPARENT and all bills were going to be put on the NET for the American people to look over and they were going to be on CNBC and MSNBC........That never happened.......The Democrats passed the ACA behind closed doors and against the will of the majority of the American people.....Oh well.....They have to get more people on the Government dole to secure them votes.........

Guess what party was in control under FDR?.........the only thing that saved this country then was WW2.....It sure wasn't THE NEW DEAL!!!!!!!!!!........We would still be waiting on that to work if it weren't for the second world war coming along...

Do you remember Carter's misery index? Man what party had the White House and Congress under Carter?....That's right the Democrats...Dammit man it sounds like anytime the Democrats are in power the American people suffer badly....Got any clue why that is?....When there aren't any Republicans around to blame it on what is a poor man to do?.......Wonder why Reagan won with a SERIOUS landslide victory over that administration.......It could have been because the American people were tired of suffering under Democrat policy and then Reagan went on to win a 2nd term and won 49 of the 50 states if that isn't a MANDATE from the American people I don't know what is....What ever he was getting done must have pleased the electorate.....Things in this country have changed a lot since then, hence we just re-elected Obama whom has accomplished absolutely nothing but shoving an ENORMOUS health care bill up the American people's ***** which a HUGE majority of us didn't want........and I believe the last time we had a BALANCED budget was under the administration of Clinton but the Republicans had control of both houses and had a LOT to do with that because as you liberals say the president can't be blamed for everything so taking credit for everything is out of the question too...

The REAL SAD part is if Ronald Reagan were around today and would have been running against Obama in either one of these elections he (Reagan) would lose big time because all of the principals and values that Reagan RAN on and WON on are gone for the most part from this country...Reagan believed in liberty, economic freedoms, and people taking responsibility for their own lives....But in today's world people want EVERYTHING given to them.....Thank GOD all of the Democrats and Liberals are around to save the freaking day......Oh I am so sorry...Where are my manners?.........You all are Progressives now............

You do know that there is not ONE day in this administrations first 4 years where there was MORE people working than the LAST day of the previous administration

It doesn't matter if the administration has created jobs if the NET jobs is down.....Who cares if they created millions but lost 4 times that many.........

You do also realize that you or the GOV can't spend our way into prosperity........Explain how we can ever get anywhere borrowing 43 cents out of every dollar we spend........If you done that as an individual you would need a bankruptcy attorney eventually........

 

[husker77 10+ year member]

In the one analogy(to lazy to quote everything). The next year the kid decides not to go trick or treating because he knows someone will bring him candy anyway. Then the next year there are 2 more kids waiting for the free candy because the 1st kid isn't having to go trick or treating to get his candy so they figured it would be easier for them also. Then so on and so on.

So we tax the rich business owners that pay most of our wages more because they need us to have more money to buy their products. When does it become to much of a burden to run a company and deal with the regulations, customers and whiney *** employees that think they need paid a fortune for doing their job? They decide to close their doors, sell off their assets and move to some small European country where their money will last them the rest of their lives.

Until we bring manufacturing back to the US it doesn't matter what we do. Not everyone can be a banker, hedge fund manager, lawyer or doctor. There just can't be enough jobs for everyone until we do.

 

[MisterDeadeye 10+ year member]

In the one analogy(to lazy to quote everything). The next year the kid decides not to go trick or treating because he knows someone will bring him candy anyway. Then the next year there are 2 more kids waiting for the free candy because the 1st kid isn't having to go trick or treating to get his candy so they figured it would be easier for them also. Then so on and so on.
So we tax the rich business owners that pay most of our wages more because they need us to have more money to buy their products. When does it become to much of a burden to run a company and deal with the regulations, customers and whiney *** employees that think they need paid a fortune for doing their job? They decide to close their doors, sell off their assets and move to some small European country where their money will last them the rest of their lives.

Until we bring manufacturing back to the US it doesn't matter what we do. Not everyone can be a banker, hedge fund manager, lawyer or doctor. There just can't be enough jobs for everyone until we do.

Thank you for letting me address (again) the issue I tried to address three times earlier. Because this year, kid 3 didn't do trick-or-treating, and the adult knows that, kid 3 gets nothing. The two new kids get nothing because they did nothing. You get rewarded for putting work in, not for being poor. That's why welfare needs reform. I have never tried to imply otherwise. If you work as hard as everyone else, arguably harder, don't you feel like you should get a share?

It never becomes a burden because 1% is negligible regardless of what you tell me. Fire the douche employees who think they are the same as you(I never said that the workers who make products are worth the same as CEOs). They make more money, and have the liberty of firing their employees. There are no new regulations. There is a tax, which relates only to everyone's paycheck. No one is telling you what you can or cannot do. You're free to move wherever you like. But I think we both know that these big time CEOs wouldn't like it in Europe where there's more regulation and social policies.

On your last point, I agree. This is one of the biggest problems we face now.

Curious what policies you're referring to.

I've just woken up and am about to go take a shower, but expect an incoming PM. No, the policies are not conservative talking points(ie., birth control = Catholics are so mad, or Obama has done nothing to guns = HE TOOK AWAY OUR GUNS!)

And the policies are mostly just continuations of earlier policies that I found horrible when they were first enacted.

Double, fairness =/= socialism. That's the point I tried to make earlier. Socialism is a system(economic) in which goods and products are made directly for use. This means that instead of having Coca-Cola make soda all data every day, to make a profit and make money, they make it based on how useful it is for the people. Considering it's relatively useless, it would not be made.

Regardless of what anyone says, you cannot have socialism and capitalism. They're polar opposites. Production for profit, or production for use. These are the most basic, glaring differences between the two systems. There may be a mixture of some other type of "socialism" with capitalism, but the two economic systems are, in essence, mutually exclusive. In socialism, things are state owned. Not so in capitalism. The contrasting features would literally fill this page.

By the way, fairness sounds a lot like equal opportunity, which sounds exactly like social liberalism. It's not an economic policy, but a social one. Completely unrelated to both socialism and capitalism. Fairness has nothing to do with socialism. How is it fair for the citizens to own nothing and the government own everything? In a global economy, pure socialism can't work because people have no real say in anything.

However, Prox is right. We live in a mixed economy based on capitalism.

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

Regardless of what anyone says, you cannot have socialism and capitalism. They're polar opposites. Production for profit, or production for use. These are the most basic, glaring differences between the two systems. There may be a mixture of some other type of "socialism" with capitalism, but the two economic systems are, in essence, mutually exclusive. In socialism, things are state owned. Not so in capitalism. The contrasting features would literally fill this page.

I guess my definition of socialism is basically government involvement in the economy. You can have pure socialism, in which the government controls everything, or you can have a mixed economy (like ours), where socialistic policies are used with capitalism. But this is basically semantics, I'm sure we agree either way.

Ok.......How do we get unemployment down?

Please explain why the liberal policies of the current administration hasn't brought it down.....and please don't say GEORGE BUSH because that story line is getting old.....and if my memory serves me correctly the Democrats had control of both houses during the infamous Bush administration so don't forget to give them a piece of the blame because as you guys put it the president can't be blamed for everything...Congress is a big part of it.....And please refrain from blaming it on the Republicans that currently have the HOUSE because for the first 2 years of this administration's time the DEMS had both houses and what did they concentrate on fixing from the BUSH term...was it jobs?........Nope....they spent all of their energies and time to push through the largest most expensive bill ever the ACA......Trust me the consequences from the ACA will be at the American people's dinner table in the next few years because common freaking sense dictates that you can not INSURE MILLIONS of more people and the cost go down for everyone.......I don't what kind of calculator was used on that one.........Oh and when they (DEMS) was in the process of passing the bill, Nancy Pelosi said "let's just pass the bill and then we can see what is in it".....You guys are shitting me right.....We should be passing bills that haven't even been READ and you guys back these kinds of people and this comes from an administration that was going to be the MOST TRANSPARENT and all bills were going to be put on the NET for the American people to look over and they were going to be on CNBC and MSNBC........That never happened.......The Democrats passed the ACA behind closed doors and against the will of the majority of the American people.....Oh well.....They have to get more people on the Government dole to secure them votes.........

Guess what party was in control under FDR?.........the only thing that saved this country then was WW2.....It sure wasn't THE NEW DEAL!!!!!!!!!!........We would still be waiting on that to work if it weren't for the second world war coming along...

Do you remember Carter's misery index? Man what party had the White House and Congress under Carter?....That's right the Democrats...Dammit man it sounds like anytime the Democrats are in power the American people suffer badly....Got any clue why that is?....When there aren't any Republicans around to blame it on what is a poor man to do?.......Wonder why Reagan won with a SERIOUS landslide victory over that administration.......It could have been because the American people were tired of suffering under Democrat policy and then Reagan went on to win a 2nd term and won 49 of the 50 states if that isn't a MANDATE from the American people I don't know what is....What ever he was getting done must have pleased the electorate.....Things in this country have changed a lot since then, hence we just re-elected Obama whom has accomplished absolutely nothing but shoving an ENORMOUS health care bill up the American people's ***** which a HUGE majority of us didn't want........and I believe the last time we had a BALANCED budget was under the administration of Clinton but the Republicans had control of both houses and had a LOT to do with that because as you liberals say the president can't be blamed for everything so taking credit for everything is out of the question too...

The REAL SAD part is if Ronald Reagan were around today and would have been running against Obama in either one of these elections he (Reagan) would lose big time because all of the principals and values that Reagan RAN on and WON on are gone for the most part from this country...Reagan believed in liberty, economic freedoms, and people taking responsibility for their own lives....But in today's world people want EVERYTHING given to them.....Thank GOD all of the Democrats and Liberals are around to save the freaking day......Oh I am so sorry...Where are my manners?.........You all are Progressives now............

You do know that there is not ONE day in this administrations first 4 years where there was MORE people working than the LAST day of the previous administration

It doesn't matter if the administration has created jobs if the NET jobs is down.....Who cares if they created millions but lost 4 times that many.........

You do also realize that you or the GOV can't spend our way into prosperity........Explain how we can ever get anywhere borrowing 43 cents out of every dollar we spend........If you done that as an individual you would need a bankruptcy attorney eventually........

Okay...completely ignoring the fact that you didn't response to anything I said...

The George Bush line is only getting old because conservatives & republicans don't like the fact that this economy is a result of Republican policies. Realizing the failures that caused current problems is the only way to move forward and progress because if you refuse to accept past failures, you're bound to repeat them. This isn't a kindergarten playground, blame is a completely reasonable, if not necessary, function of moving forward.

And yes, Obama and the Democrats spent a large amount of time on the healthcare bill. But sometimes, you have to put long term problems (health care) ahead of short term problems (jobs & the recession). Healthcare reform is something that is necessary for our country to thrive in the future. It's something Democrats have been trying to accomplish for 50 years. Obama had an enormous amount of political capital and majorities in both chambers and he placed his priority on something that needed to be done and this might be the only opportunity for another 50 years. Good on him and the Democrats for passing historic legislation. It was the right thing to do.

As for your question about how to get employment down, well, it should be pretty obvious but I'll explain for you anyway. Yes, we do what FDR did. His policies, while they did not get us out of the enormous depression we were in, created jobs, placed us on a path to recovery and eased the pain suffered by millions. Without the New Deal and with the continuation of Hoover's approach (do nothing), we likely would have faced a revolution because 25% of the country couldn't eat. Unemployment went down for 6 years before republicans convinced FDR to ease on his earlier policies and attempt to balance the budget. What happened next? Unemployment shot up again, at which point FDR resumed his works programs and (socialist) stimulus, at which point unemployment started going back down.

But yes, you're right, it wasn't until WWII came that we got out of the depression. But, what was it precisely that got us out of the depression? Well...government stimulus. The same types of things in the New Deal. Except, instead of building roads and damns, the government started putting people to work building tanks, plans and bombs. Now the government wasn't directly employing these people, but they still bought the products they produced. Government spending sky rocketed, the debt exploded and it put people to work. It decreased unemployment, and after the war our economy boomed. It wasn't the war directly that got us out of the depression, it was government spending. This is PROOF liberal economics works. It's PROOF that John Maynard Keynes knows what he's talking about.

You want this recession to end? We need a huge public works bill that will rebuild and enhance our infrastructure and make it #1 in the world. Not only will this create a ton of jobs, but it will mark our dedication to become the #1 ideas nation in the world. While we're at it, let's build a high speed rail system between the east coast, Detroit and Chicago. Every body wins. Of course, the Republicans will never go along with this because it doesn't meet their #1 goal: make the rich as rich as possible.

And yes, I will blame the fact unemployment hasn't gone down significantly (it HAS gone down, however) is because of republican opposition to any progress whatsoever. Their strategy was obvious, and Mitch McConnell told us about it from day one. Their #1 priority wasn't getting this country back to work and it isn't to reduce the debt, it was only to get Obama out of office. So in effect, they sabotaged any progress that could have been made. They wouldn't even accept their own ideas, for fear that it might help the economy which would hurt their chances at getting a Republican president this year.

 

[thevic24 5,000+ posts]

Ok....this is what I have gathered so far....

one side is to blame for just about everything and the other.....well has not done to much to help.....

Ok, now my question.....

What was Lincoln?

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

1.) Once again you guys are blaming BUSH for the mess we are in.....What PARTY was in control of both houses of congress when Bush was in office?......He didn't do all of that bullshit alone.......I also was NOT a big fan of all of Bush's policies but one thing is for certain he kept our country safe after Sept 11, 2001 and it hasn't had any more attacks until recently when your team dropped the ball and a US Diplomat is dead along with US servicemen at that......But that was the result of a YOUTUBE video......We should rename this administration the OBLAMOS.....I have yet to see ONE instance where anyone has admitted failure....I guess blame is so much easier.....

2.) So you think it's a good thing to pass a HUGE bill like the ACA against the will of over 50% of this country....While over 50% of our country disagreed and didn't want that bill and it was passed anyway and without even reading it..........That sounds like the American people had NO VOICE in that one at all.......And also don't never kid yourself about why that bill was passed....It's not about healthcare like it sounds....You are RIGHT the Dems have been wanting to do that for years but do you know why?........To get more people dependent on Government and in return that secures that the Democrats stay in power....Gives them another tool to scare the electorate with.......With actions like this against the will of the people you guys would fit in NICELY in CUBA.....

3.) FDR's policies wouldn't have gotten us out of that recession if they would have went on for 20 years.....You guys don't understand simple math do ya?....How can this country be gaining any prosperity when we are borrowing 43 cents of every dollar we spend and that goes for BOTH PARTIES........You can not spend your way into prosperity....

4.) I agree that BOTH parties need to find common ground to solve our issues at hand like the unemployment......Neither side wants to bend any..........I wished the Republicans in the house would get out of the way and let the man in charge do what he wants to and we will all find out if he really knows how to fix this....If they allowed him to do so I think it would stop all the bickering back and forth and the blame games........

5.) Oh and don't confuse me with someone that dislikes OBAMA....I voted for him in the election in 2008........The main deciding factor that I didn't give him my support this time is the fact of the ACA.......I have no problem with Health care reform but the way it was passed was the ENTIRELY wrong approach....It went against the will of the majority of we Americans.......And I am NOT the only American that felt betrayed by that move....

 

[double 07 10+ year member]

Ok....this is what I have gathered so far....
one side is to blame for just about everything and the other.....well has not done to much to help.....

Ok, now my question.....

What was Lincoln?

That sums it up.........George Bush, the Republicans, youtube, atms, and the Japanese Tsunami caused all of this........Not one Democrat has had a hand in it as I gather......then when they get in power and claim they have the fix and then the fix as it is called blows up in their faces and unemployment doubles then it was just worst than they thought....

I am waiting on either one of them to answer a simple question......How can we prosper and lower the deficit by spending money we don't have?...We are borrowing 43 cents of EVERY dollar spent at this point........

Oh and Lincoln was a Republican but there will probably be a Progressive along any minute now to demonize him as well........

Wealth redistribution, wealth envy, blame others, and demonize anyone more successful than you are all plays right out of the Liberal playbook.....

 

[Proximity 10+ year member]

How can we prosper and lower the deficit by spending money we don't have?

Simple: we can't. You can't have both worlds. You want Obama/Congress to only focus on the deficit, then don't ***** the economy either doesn't get better or gets worse. If you want the government to focus on reviving the economy, then either accept higher taxes on the rich or adding to the debt.

FDR's policies wouldn't have gotten us out of that recession if they would have went on for 20 years

Yeah? So what did get us out of the great depression. And don't just say "the war". What economic mechanics were present that got us out of the depression.

And when people were asked about the individual components of the ACA people were in favor overwhelmingly. Most people only objected to it because of the propaganda, "socialism!!" scare-tactics of the right. And furthermore, a comfortable majority of people either wanted it passed or wanted it to go even further. A minority opposed it and wanted the government to do nothing.

 

[knotdrummer88 10+ year member]

@kushy_dreams you started a war...

 

[husker77 10+ year member]

@kushy_dreams you started a war...

That's what he was trying to do.

I felt like this election was basically choosing btw having your leg cut off or your head, having your head cut off won. I believe in the system and in democracy, and am happy I live someplace I can comment on the government without having to worry about being killed. I do disagree with the electoral college and sounds like maybe by next Presidential election it will be gone.

Personally I do not feel there should be any names on the ballots. Instead there should by about 11 question regarding policy, you answer yes or no to all 11 questions and the candidate who's policy you voted for most would get your vote.

1. Do you think we should take money from hard working Americans and give it to people who would rather spend their day watching Maury Povich?

2. Would you like the Military who protects you to have old outdated equipment and be payed really low salaries?

You would have to answer all 11 for your ballot to count. Each candidate would get to suggest three questions that a yes answer would be them and 1 that a yes answer would be their opponent, then an 3 questions from another bipartisan source.

I do want to congratulate the Democrats on the win, it has been a long process.

1. You had to impoverish a large percentage of society

2. You had to get them dependent on government programs

3. You had to make them fear voting for anything but democrat or possibly lose said programs

4. And you had to vilify people that work hard and are successful

So congrats again on your big win.

 

[DropDownLowYota 10+ year member]

i bet republicans don't like bass either