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<blockquote data-quote="Proximity" data-source="post: 7925601" data-attributes="member: 589997"><p>I guess my definition of socialism is basically government involvement in the economy. You can have pure socialism, in which the government controls everything, or you can have a mixed economy (like ours), where socialistic policies are used with capitalism. But this is basically semantics, I'm sure we agree either way.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay...completely ignoring the fact that you didn't response to anything I said...</p><p></p><p>The George Bush line is only getting old because conservatives &amp; republicans don't like the fact that this economy is a result of Republican policies. Realizing the failures that caused current problems is the only way to move forward and progress because if you refuse to accept past failures, you're bound to repeat them. This isn't a kindergarten playground, blame is a completely reasonable, if not necessary, function of moving forward.</p><p></p><p>And yes, Obama and the Democrats spent a large amount of time on the healthcare bill. But sometimes, you have to put long term problems (health care) ahead of short term problems (jobs &amp; the recession). Healthcare reform is something that is necessary for our country to thrive in the future. It's something Democrats have been trying to accomplish for 50 years. Obama had an enormous amount of political capital and majorities in both chambers and he placed his priority on something that needed to be done and this might be the only opportunity for another 50 years. Good on him and the Democrats for passing historic legislation. It was the right thing to do.</p><p></p><p>As for your question about how to get employment down, well, it should be pretty obvious but I'll explain for you anyway. Yes, we do what FDR did. His policies, while they did not get us out of the enormous depression we were in, created jobs, placed us on a path to recovery and eased the pain suffered by millions. Without the New Deal and with the continuation of Hoover's approach (do nothing), we likely would have faced a revolution because 25% of the country couldn't eat. Unemployment went down for 6 years before republicans convinced FDR to ease on his earlier policies and attempt to balance the budget. What happened next? Unemployment shot up again, at which point FDR resumed his works programs and (socialist) stimulus, at which point unemployment started going back down.</p><p></p><p>But yes, you're right, it wasn't until WWII came that we got out of the depression. But, what was it precisely that got us out of the depression? Well...government stimulus. The same types of things in the New Deal. Except, instead of building roads and damns, the government started putting people to work building tanks, plans and bombs. Now the government wasn't directly employing these people, but they still bought the products they produced. Government spending sky rocketed, the debt exploded and it put people to work. It decreased unemployment, and after the war our economy boomed. It wasn't the war directly that got us out of the depression, it was government spending. This is PROOF liberal economics works. It's PROOF that John Maynard Keynes knows what he's talking about.</p><p></p><p>You want this recession to end? We need a huge public works bill that will rebuild and enhance our infrastructure and make it <a href="http:////forums/usertag.php?do=list&amp;action=hash&amp;hash=1" target="_blank">#1</a> in the world. Not only will this create a ton of jobs, but it will mark our dedication to become the <a href="http:////forums/usertag.php?do=list&amp;action=hash&amp;hash=1" target="_blank">#1</a> ideas nation in the world. While we're at it, let's build a high speed rail system between the east coast, Detroit and Chicago. Every body wins. Of course, the Republicans will never go along with this because it doesn't meet their <a href="http:////forums/usertag.php?do=list&amp;action=hash&amp;hash=1" target="_blank">#1</a> goal: make the rich as rich as possible.</p><p></p><p>And yes, I will blame the fact unemployment hasn't gone down significantly (it HAS gone down, however) is because of republican opposition to any progress whatsoever. Their strategy was obvious, and Mitch McConnell told us about it from day one. Their <a href="http:////forums/usertag.php?do=list&amp;action=hash&amp;hash=1" target="_blank">#1</a> priority wasn't getting this country back to work and it isn't to reduce the debt, it was only to get Obama out of office. So in effect, they sabotaged any progress that could have been made. They wouldn't even accept their own ideas, for fear that it might help the economy which would hurt their chances at getting a Republican president this year.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Proximity, post: 7925601, member: 589997"] I guess my definition of socialism is basically government involvement in the economy. You can have pure socialism, in which the government controls everything, or you can have a mixed economy (like ours), where socialistic policies are used with capitalism. But this is basically semantics, I'm sure we agree either way. Okay...completely ignoring the fact that you didn't response to anything I said... The George Bush line is only getting old because conservatives & republicans don't like the fact that this economy is a result of Republican policies. Realizing the failures that caused current problems is the only way to move forward and progress because if you refuse to accept past failures, you're bound to repeat them. This isn't a kindergarten playground, blame is a completely reasonable, if not necessary, function of moving forward. And yes, Obama and the Democrats spent a large amount of time on the healthcare bill. But sometimes, you have to put long term problems (health care) ahead of short term problems (jobs & the recession). Healthcare reform is something that is necessary for our country to thrive in the future. It's something Democrats have been trying to accomplish for 50 years. Obama had an enormous amount of political capital and majorities in both chambers and he placed his priority on something that needed to be done and this might be the only opportunity for another 50 years. Good on him and the Democrats for passing historic legislation. It was the right thing to do. As for your question about how to get employment down, well, it should be pretty obvious but I'll explain for you anyway. Yes, we do what FDR did. His policies, while they did not get us out of the enormous depression we were in, created jobs, placed us on a path to recovery and eased the pain suffered by millions. Without the New Deal and with the continuation of Hoover's approach (do nothing), we likely would have faced a revolution because 25% of the country couldn't eat. Unemployment went down for 6 years before republicans convinced FDR to ease on his earlier policies and attempt to balance the budget. What happened next? Unemployment shot up again, at which point FDR resumed his works programs and (socialist) stimulus, at which point unemployment started going back down. But yes, you're right, it wasn't until WWII came that we got out of the depression. But, what was it precisely that got us out of the depression? Well...government stimulus. The same types of things in the New Deal. Except, instead of building roads and damns, the government started putting people to work building tanks, plans and bombs. Now the government wasn't directly employing these people, but they still bought the products they produced. Government spending sky rocketed, the debt exploded and it put people to work. It decreased unemployment, and after the war our economy boomed. It wasn't the war directly that got us out of the depression, it was government spending. This is PROOF liberal economics works. It's PROOF that John Maynard Keynes knows what he's talking about. You want this recession to end? We need a huge public works bill that will rebuild and enhance our infrastructure and make it [URL="http:////forums/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1"]#1[/URL] in the world. Not only will this create a ton of jobs, but it will mark our dedication to become the [URL="http:////forums/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1"]#1[/URL] ideas nation in the world. While we're at it, let's build a high speed rail system between the east coast, Detroit and Chicago. Every body wins. Of course, the Republicans will never go along with this because it doesn't meet their [URL="http:////forums/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1"]#1[/URL] goal: make the rich as rich as possible. And yes, I will blame the fact unemployment hasn't gone down significantly (it HAS gone down, however) is because of republican opposition to any progress whatsoever. Their strategy was obvious, and Mitch McConnell told us about it from day one. Their [URL="http:////forums/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1"]#1[/URL] priority wasn't getting this country back to work and it isn't to reduce the debt, it was only to get Obama out of office. So in effect, they sabotaged any progress that could have been made. They wouldn't even accept their own ideas, for fear that it might help the economy which would hurt their chances at getting a Republican president this year. [/QUOTE]
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