Hands on experience with DSPs/LOCs

[HardcoreBob]

Who can give their hands on experience with the various DSPs out there, particularly those with high level inputs for a stock radio?

I have read SO MANY descriptions and reviews... some people say each one is great, some say each one is crap...

I'm drawn to rockford's DSR or 360, but I'm just as drawn to Some of Audio Controls products that take out the necessity of a lap top...

I would really like to hear anyone's personal experience from ANY of the brands.

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[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

On diyma there is a thread on each DSP on the market.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Who can give their hands on experience with the various DSPs out there, particularly those with high level inputs for a stock radio?
I have read SO MANY descriptions and reviews... some people say each one is great, some say each one is crap...

I'm drawn to rockford's DSR or 360, but I'm just as drawn to Some of Audio Controls products that take out the necessity of a lap top...

I would really like to hear anyone's personal experience from ANY of the brands.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

audio control lc7i, lc2i, lc6i and all that are outdated junk. They dont provide anything in terms of sound quality or tuning. All you get is a sh*tty stock head unit signal with the sh*tty stock head unit EQ curve that overcompensates for garbage stock speakers.

While a dsp actually can allow you to have amazing sound quality, soundstage, and plenty of channels to run whatever speaker configuration you want.

 

[HardcoreBob]

audio control lc7i, lc2i, lc6i and all that are outdated junk. They dont provide anything in terms of sound quality or tuning. All you get is a sh*tty stock head unit signal with the sh*tty stock head unit EQ curve that overcompensates for garbage stock speakers.
While a dsp actually can allow you to have amazing sound quality, soundstage, and plenty of channels to run whatever speaker configuration you want.

Thanks. Yeah, if I ended up running Audio Control, I was going to "at least" get the DQ model with what appears to be, at some "basic" Eq ability, as well as time alignment...

It seems to me the products I'm looking at, make a $150 on up to $300 jump in price point for time alignment ?

Is that worth the money in your opinion, and how much does that screw up the sound for the passenger?

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[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Why are you wasting everyone’s time if you are not going to listen to ****?

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Thanks. Yeah, if I ended up running Audio Control, I was going to "at least" get the DQ model with what appears to be, at some "basic" Eq ability, as well as time alignment...
It seems to me the products I'm looking at, make a $150 on up to $300 jump in price point for time alignment ?

Is that worth the money in your opinion, and how much does that screw up the sound for the passenger?

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no the DQ is complete junk as well sh*t EQ bands, no active network crossover functions at all. Not even 1/10 in the same league as any dsp, absolute garbage by today's standards. Compete waste of money. 7 bands of graphical EQ? is this a joke? Most head units now a days have a minimum of 13 bands graphical..

Difference between graphical and parametric. Graphical it affects whatever frequency is near by and you can change it. Parametric means you can select whatever frequency you want and you can affect the Q factor which means how much your EQ cut or boost affects other frequencies around it. So that means if you want to cut 6000hz range but find out you only needed to cut 5800hz and nothing else, you can just cut down that range only and it wont affect anything else. With graphical aka that audiocontrol DQ, You cut down 6000hz, you dont really solve the issue and you just destroyed the sound because it brought down everything else along with it during the cut.

Time alignment of each individual drivers is just one part of it. 31 bands of parametric EQ that you can EQ EACH and every single driver independantly is what a dsp is all about. Along with being able to split the jobs of speakers via ACTIVE NETWORK crossovers so you have one doing pure midbass duties, one doing pure midrange, one doing tweeter and one for sub. The slope adjustments allow you to perfectly blend and smooth the frequency response out.

Basically you can delegate the frequency range of each driver to your vehicle acoustics completely. With old setups, you are stuck with a passive crossover that is stuck with a set crossover point and slope, thats why in one car, the component set might sound okay while in another car, you got reviews saying it sounds like sh*t. Its not the speaker's fault, its the vehicle acoustics that affect the sound. with an ACTIVE NETWORK setup, you ditch the passive crossover, and the dsp crosses over everything.

Time alignment makes the difference between blaring noise in your car vs actually seeing a live performance on your dash.

You can literally see the musician and each band member in each of their recording spot on the dash. If the singer walks left or right, you'll literally see through sound.

This is what sound stage is. It separates the mediocre lifeless setups from the orgasmic face melting SQ setups.

So yes in every way its completely worth it no questions asked. Anything below that is beyond substandard by today's SQ standards. The SQ standards of today are WAAAAAAAAAY WAAAAAAAAAAAAY higher than what old school guys can ever hope to achieve purely due to the advancements in technology. Either you get with it or get left in the dust like any audio control product which are basically dinosaur fossils.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

TLDR i think a dsp is far beyond your level of comprehension right now, you might want to study up a bit.

 

[Jcsaudio]

I have an Audio Control DQ61 fed by the factory radio running a passive 2-way component setup up front and coaxial speakers in the rear with a 12' sealed subwoofer. I have a JL Audio Twk 88 DSP fed from the ****** sync ford radio in my regular cab pu running an an active 2 way setup with a small JL sub sealed. I have a Pioneer radio with an Audio Control EQX running a two way active component setup up front via Audio Control EQX with coaxial in the rear and a 10' ported subwoofer in a 14 Sienna.

In my opinion they are all great setups and yeah, Audio Control stuff is old school analog and expensive, but it's quality stuff that can net you great sound in the right application if you know what you are doing. The JL Audio Twk 88 DSP is just awesome with its individual parametric EQ for each speaker and time alignment too. The software is so easy to use after an initial learning curve but it won't make up by itself for the factory EQ from Ford, which thankfully in my Mazda isn't an issue. I also love my DQ61, which is about the easiest most basic but effective factory radio integration device to set up. I'm able to turn the time alignment on and off during play and the difference in sound it makes is huge. You literally just turn a knob to get the time alignment to where it sounds best for the front stage and subwoofer, simple but effective.

Like the previous pointed out, each vehicle will make your speakers sound different. Proper door preparation/sound deadening and good quality amplifier, speaker, and especially wiring is key. I also use REW RTA with a mini DSP microphone to tune my setups, which if you do not know is a free but very effective RTA software program. Also consider Mini DSP 6x8 or the Cadence DSP 4.8 if you are on a tight budget but have to have a DSP.

In my opinion the AudioControl DQ61 is the way to go if you are using a passive crossover and just want a simple and effective way to get some time alignment and basic EQ and you don't want to spend hours tuning or spending money on cables and more amplifiers. They also have a free app with an RTA for the DQ61, which when I checked with REW was pretty accurate. Consider the NVX X series line of speakers for a really nice passive component system but stay away from their amplifiers. Those components are made by SB Acoustics; a very good manufacturer of raw Hi Fi speaker drivers.

 

[HardcoreBob]

TLDR i think a dsp is far beyond your level of comprehension right now, you might want to study up a bit.

No, I actually do get it, it takes me awhile to fully grasp things, and I can be too thourough and too meticulous... I needed the -for dummies- treatment to fully let go of the wishful thinking on ACs products... was hoping for the lesser products would give a little "plug and play" instant gratification, and just enough quality control to get the job done hassle free... but that's not really what I want, I WANT TO DO IT RIGHT... So thanks...

I have actually downloaded several brands software to "feel" the interface, RF seems friendly for "a guy wasting everyone's time".

The deciding factor for me at this time, is finding a DSP with blue tooth for tuning. The PC ran models sound too unrealizable and too much a hassle.

The DSR1 from Rockford fits that bill, but I'm confused how the DSR is more capable than the 360.3 but costs half as much...[emoji51]

What am I missing.

I have looked at Audio controls actual DSPs as well, and from what I understand they are about to drop units with BT tuning capabilities...

Thanks for y'all's patience, I have a whole lot of questions I want to ask, and a lot are dumb, but I'm 40 and just getting back into car audio, and at this age I'm ready to do it right as best I can, and I am bad about way over thinking things, and be slow/handicapped on others.

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[HardcoreBob]

No, I actually do get it, it takes me awhile to fully grasp things, and I can be too thourough and too meticulous... I needed the -for dummies- treatment to fully let go of the wishful thinking on ACs products... was hoping for the lesser products would give a little "plug and play" instant gratification, and just enough quality control to get the job done hassle free... but that's not really what I want, I WANT TO DO IT RIGHT... So thanks...
I have actually downloaded several brands software to "feel" the interface, RF seems friendly for "a guy wasting everyone's time".

The deciding factor for me at this time, is finding a DSP with blue tooth for tuning. The PC ran models sound too unrealizable and too much a hassle.

The DSR1 from Rockford fits that bill, but I'm confused how the DSR is more capable than the 360.3 but costs half as much...[emoji51]

What am I missing.

I have looked at Audio controls actual DSPs as well, and from what I understand they are about to drop units with BT tuning capabilities...

Thanks for y'all's patience, I have a whole lot of questions I want to ask, and a lot are dumb, but I'm 40 and just getting back into car audio, and at this age I'm ready to do it right as best I can, and I am bad about way over thinking things, and be slow/handicapped on others.

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Do any of you guys know a "very, very good" installer in the Dallas area?

I want someone I can trust to be thorough with wiring correctly from my trucks amp (the line converter part) I'm confident to slowly do the rest as close to perfection as I can from there...

I know installers are a dime a dozen, but I want someone that will let me get in there with them and participate, even if I have to pay more...

I have considered going to Best Buy where they have certified technicians and slip him one of my cards and ask him if he does side work.

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[LosIsATool 5,000+ posts]

Do any of you guys know a "very, very good" installer in the Dallas area?
I want someone I can trust to be thorough with wiring correctly from my trucks amp (the line converter part) I'm confident to slowly do the rest as close to perfection as I can from there...

I know installers are a dime a dozen, but I want someone that will let me get in there with them and participate, even if I have to pay more...

I have considered going to Best Buy where they have certified technicians and slip him one of my cards and ask him if he does side work.

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Not sure how far College Station is but Mobile toys has a few of the top installers and tuners in the world.

And if Chris has his Civic there it’s a treat. https://www.facebook.com/mobiletoysincBCS/

 

[Jcsaudio]

Who can give their hands on experience with the various DSPs out there, particularly those with high level inputs for a stock radio?
I have read SO MANY descriptions and reviews... some people say each one is great, some say each one is crap...

I'm drawn to rockford's DSR or 360, but I'm just as drawn to Some of Audio Controls products that take out the necessity of a lap top...

I would really like to hear anyone's personal experience from ANY of the brands.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ok, I own a 14 Mazda CX-5 with the Audio Control DQ61, factory radio, 75wx4 amp on passive components up front and coax in the rear consisting of Polk woofers and Morel tweeters. Also have a 500w mono amp and a 12" sealed sub. Let me tell you the DQ61, although old school, is super simple to set up and makes a huge difference in the sound quality, mostly due to the time aligned fronts and sub. You just turn a knob to get the time alignment just where you want it. I used REW RTA with a mini DSP microphone to do some minor tuning and compared that to the Audio Control app, which is pretty accurate and free from Audio Control.

Ok, I also own a 14 Ford XL regular cab pickup that is my daily work truck with Sync. Hated the factory sound so I replaced the door speakers with Dayton Audio neo woofers and Tang Bang tweeters running active from a JL Audio Twk 88 DSP and a 40w per channel older Alpine amp. The lows are handled by a JL Audio 8" W3V3-4 sealed sub and a 200 watt mono amp. Also used REW to tune this and the sound quality is very good considering the factory radio EQ was difficult to deal with in the bass region. Very nice DSP with a software interface that is easy to use after a few weeks learning curve.

Lastly, I have a 14 Sienna with a Pioneer HU connected to an old school Audio Control EQX to split the signal at 2400 hz, 24 db per octave LR, for the front Focal woofers and SB Acoustics Tweeters. It has a 75wx4 amplifier just for the front stage and a 400 watt mono amp feeding a 10" ported sub tuned to 35 hz. Again sound quality for this setup is just superb and I give much credit to the Audio Control EQX and tuning with REW. Between the HU graphic 13 band EQ and the Audio Control EQ I was able to make minor adjustments to get the sound just right.

So there you have it, someone with experience with old school Audio Control stuff and fully modern DSP too. Audio Control is good stuff if you like it simple and analog. The DQ61 is about the simplist easiest factory integration device you can use with very effective TA and basic EQ that takes no time to get set up right. As long as your factory radio doesn't have some screwy EQ like my Ford Sync does than it is a great device.

Running a Full DSP active is advanced stuff and will require hours of tuning with a Real Time Analyzer, microphone, and more amplifiers than passive setups require. If you are willing to master this than you will have almost unlimited tuning abilities.

There are other things too to consider like proper door prep, wiring, amplifier, and speaker choice. Passive component setups can sound great. One to consider is the NVX X series components for a budget minded choice. Those are made by the SB Acoustics, a very good raw driver manufacturer.

 

[HardcoreBob]

Ok, I own a 14 Mazda CX-5 with the Audio Control DQ61, factory radio, 75wx4 amp on passive components up front and coax in the rear consisting of Polk woofers and Morel tweeters. Also have a 500w mono amp and a 12" sealed sub. Let me tell you the DQ61, although old school, is super simple to set up and makes a huge difference in the sound quality, mostly due to the time aligned fronts and sub. You just turn a knob to get the time alignment just where you want it. I used REW RTA with a mini DSP microphone to do some minor tuning and compared that to the Audio Control app, which is pretty accurate and free from Audio Control.
Ok, I also own a 14 Ford XL regular cab pickup that is my daily work truck with Sync. Hated the factory sound so I replaced the door speakers with Dayton Audio neo woofers and Tang Bang tweeters running active from a JL Audio Twk 88 DSP and a 40w per channel older Alpine amp. The lows are handled by a JL Audio 8" W3V3-4 sealed sub and a 200 watt mono amp. Also used REW to tune this and the sound quality is very good considering the factory radio EQ was difficult to deal with in the bass region. Very nice DSP with a software interface that is easy to use after a few weeks learning curve.

Lastly, I have a 14 Sienna with a Pioneer HU connected to an old school Audio Control EQX to split the signal at 2400 hz, 24 db per octave LR, for the front Focal woofers and SB Acoustics Tweeters. It has a 75wx4 amplifier just for the front stage and a 400 watt mono amp feeding a 10" ported sub tuned to 35 hz. Again sound quality for this setup is just superb and I give much credit to the Audio Control EQX and tuning with REW. Between the HU graphic 13 band EQ and the Audio Control EQ I was able to make minor adjustments to get the sound just right.

So there you have it, someone with experience with old school Audio Control stuff and fully modern DSP too. Audio Control is good stuff if you like it simple and analog. The DQ61 is about the simplist easiest factory integration device you can use with very effective TA and basic EQ that takes no time to get set up right. As long as your factory radio doesn't have some screwy EQ like my Ford Sync does than it is a great device.

Running a Full DSP active is advanced stuff and will require hours of tuning with a Real Time Analyzer, microphone, and more amplifiers than passive setups require. If you are willing to master this than you will have almost unlimited tuning abilities.

There are other things too to consider like proper door prep, wiring, amplifier, and speaker choice. Passive component setups can sound great. One to consider is the NVX X series components for a budget minded choice. Those are made by the SB Acoustics, a very good raw driver manufacturer.

Thanks a million man... I do plan on getting the most with my wiring, door prep etc...

I believe I am working with the Ford Sync though... I have a 2011 F150 super crew, with the premium Sony Navigation/Sync package...

I "intend", not knowing for certain if what I have in mind is plausible , to install a set of nice components for the front amplified, keep the center and rears factory off factory amp, and 2 10 inch subs on a separate amp...

I of course need the line converter/DSP... From what I can tell research wise, for my particular needs, I need to keep it simple with a DQ, or look at current DSPs with Bluetooth interface so I can use an I-pad for interface (I just can't get behind having to mess with the laptop, and the problems I hear so much about associated with them)...so that has me looking at RF DSR, or a couple others, including a DSP from Audi Control, that from what I can tell is coming soon, as far as being able to tune from tablet...

I am glad to hear the DQ isn't junk, but obviously not ideal...

I have been advised the component set of Rockdfords I had my eye on, are $400 junk... Can you confirm or deny Rockford components are junk these days?

If so what brands are solid in your opinion?

Also, could you tell me the name of the Audio Control software so I can download it and give it a preview? I have searched for it but couldn't find it...

Do you recommend the DQ over the fix 88 for a case such as this?

It seems like I read the fix 88 requires an additional device, maybe for line summing, bass restoration, whereas the DQ handled those issues...

THANKS a lot for taking the time to give your opinions and experiences...

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[Jcsaudio]

I see the iDatalink Maestro + Rockford Fosgate - DSR 1 as the solution to your application. In my opinion the AudioControl DQ61 isn't the interface for this.

and DSR1 - 8-Channel Interactive Signal Processor w/ Integrated iDatalink Maestro Module | Rockford Fosgate® This device will allow you to bypass the aweful factory EQ and still allow you to keep all your factory radio functions while allowing you to upgrade your speakers with amplifiers. The DSR 1 interface is app based and can be found on the App Store, not sure about Android yet. I've been playing around with it on my iPad myself.
AudioControl app is at the bottom of this page. DM-608 - AudioControl

You probably mean Fix 82 or Fix86, which are designed to interface with the TwK 88 and TwK D8. They undo the factory time alignment and EQ to send a flat clean signal to the Twk 88 or D8. The D8 version is the same as the TwK 88 but it only accepts an optical input vs the 88 which also has conventional RCA. There is a pretty good video and info here. JL Audio » Info » TuN DSP Software I'm not sure this interface and DSP is for you if simple is what you want.

When it comes to speakers it gets very subjective and the flame wars and opinions run wild on the forums. I can't speak for Rockfords higher end component speakers because I haven't heard them or have experience with them. In fact I think many people give strong opinions about speakers that they may have never actually heard or tried. I've used some of Rockfords lower end stuff but that isn't fair.

The other issue with Component sets are the tweeters tend to be not the best, even in the $500 range and up. Every component set I've tried, I end up changing the tweeters for something better. Often they are cheaper small form factor tweeters that have to be crossed over high like 3500 hz and up, forcing the mid woofer into beaming or playing frequencies that they can't do all that well especially when they are placed down low in the door panel. I want to try the NVX X series components because they are made by SB Acoustics and have a crossover point of 1500 hz. I have the SB Acoustic version from Madisound of those tweeters in my Sienna and they are just awesome. I may also just buy those raw drivers from Madisound and just run them active, haven't decided yet.

The brands I do have experience with though are Focal, Morel, Polk, JL subs, Pioneer, Alpine, and many different home Audio raw drivers over the past three years. There are so many factors that can make or break how a speaker sounds besides the drivers themselves that it's hard to say. Just the proper installation of the woofer makes a huge difference. Some of the brands that I have not heard but have been reading about and watching with positive reviews are AudioFrog, Hertz, JL Audio, Sound Solutions Audio, Alpine Type R, NVX X series (I'm going to get these next).

If you can, try and find an Audio shop in your area and listen to them there. I would support that local business though if I did that and purchase there. Crutchfield is great because you can try any speaker they sell and if you're not happy with them within 60 days they will give you your money back. Plan on using an amplifier that can supply the component set with at least 75% of the top RMS power range of that speaker. If you can't do that than the component set will not reach its potential especially in the mid bass region.

Ive also heard real good things about Image Dynamic component sets too. I see them being recommended by happy customers on forums a lot. Woofers Etc https://www.woofersetc.com carrys them. For amplifiers on a tight budget I've heard that PPI is good and for a little more money Zapco looks like real nice stuff.

 

[Jeffdachef 5,000+ posts]

Thanks a million man... I do plan on getting the most with my wiring, door prep etc...
I believe I am working with the Ford Sync though... I have a 2011 F150 super crew, with the premium Sony Navigation/Sync package...

I "intend", not knowing for certain if what I have in mind is plausible , to install a set of nice components for the front amplified, keep the center and rears factory off factory amp, and 2 10 inch subs on a separate amp...

I of course need the line converter/DSP... From what I can tell research wise, for my particular needs, I need to keep it simple with a DQ, or look at current DSPs with Bluetooth interface so I can use an I-pad for interface (I just can't get behind having to mess with the laptop, and the problems I hear so much about associated with them)...so that has me looking at RF DSR, or a couple others, including a DSP from Audi Control, that from what I can tell is coming soon, as far as being able to tune from tablet...

I am glad to hear the DQ isn't junk, but obviously not ideal...

I have been advised the component set of Rockdfords I had my eye on, are $400 junk... Can you confirm or deny Rockford components are junk these days?

If so what brands are solid in your opinion?

Also, could you tell me the name of the Audio Control software so I can download it and give it a preview? I have searched for it but couldn't find it...

Do you recommend the DQ over the fix 88 for a case such as this?

It seems like I read the fix 88 requires an additional device, maybe for line summing, bass restoration, whereas the DQ handled those issues...

THANKS a lot for taking the time to give your opinions and experiences...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Just letting you know i personally have the 400 dollar rockford T2 component set. They sound decently good but are they worth 400 dollars? NOPE. Not by a mile. I can get much better results piecing together better tweeters and mids. The T2 set is worth 200 dollars at best. I got mines used off my buddy getting out of car audio for 120 dollars.

This will be a common thing you'll see most people that have been in audio for a while do. Sets are just not worth the money at all when you can buy individual superior drivers and really match the crossover points with the DSP to perfectly blend with your vehicle's acoustics.

Difference between that and just slapping a set of components on with next to no audio tuning capabilities is night and day, Winter and summer.