Gun Control

[perfecxionX 10+ year member]

If it's a tautology, that just proves how indefensible your argument is. Your argument is based on a flawed premise. You are making the case that, we should govern based on accidents. That is what your statistics were about and that is what your nuclear analogy was about, so that is your only point so far. With that being said, how many car accidents are there a year? How many boat and motorcycle accidents? Since those totals are FAR greater than gun accidents, wouldn't it make more sense based on your logic in your argument to ban those first?
Next, you mentioned jared loughner. The premise of your argument is that since he bought a gun brand new and used it in an illegal way, that had he not been able to buy a brand new gun the crime would be prevented. That of course cannot be substantiated. Guns are, and always will be easy to obtain illegally. There are no laws that can be written to prevent it. Drugs are illegal right now, yet anyone can buy them anywhere. Your entire argument cannot be backed up with logic.

Fully automatic and concealable weapons are necessary for law abiding citizens to protect themselves from these criminals. If a group of males breaks into a home to ****, kill, and burglarize, an individuals only hope is to be able to sling more lead down range faster than they can. This levels the playing field. Concealable weapons are small and compact and much easier to manuever around corners in your house. A shotgun can get a person killed by making noise when bumping into walls, or being seen before the person rounds the corner.

It has nothing to do with accidents. When i say a nuclear power could become incompetent I'm meaning that the nation becomes belligerent or violent where they weren't when they acquired nuclear weapons. I'm not saying that they simply fail to maintain their nuclear arsenal in a responsible way. This is why i said "In the same way a law abiding gun owner can buy a gun and then later very easily become a non law abiding gun owner." (ie. a criminal)

I bring up Jared Loughner because this was someone who had been kicked out of their community college and told they couldn't return without a psychiatric evaluation. At least 2 of his classmates thought that he would commit a spree shooting months before he actually did. But he was still able to buy a glock and a 30 round mag the night before the shooting. He unloaded the first mag and was only tackled and stopped while reloading. He killed six and injured 14, if the background check hadnt failed he wouldn't have had a handgun, and if the 2004 assault weapon ban hadn't expired he wouldn't have had a 30 round mag. The likelihood of him injuring/killing an equal number of people with a standard 10 round clip is very low.

With how rare it is that people ever use their own guns in self defense, the likelihood of ever needing some military style weapon for self defense is extraordinary low. The United States is hardly the wild west anymore.

 

[ahole-ic]

It has nothing to do with accidents. When i say a nuclear power could become incompetent I'm meaning that the nation becomes belligerent or violent where they weren't when they acquired nuclear weapons. I'm not saying that they simply fail to maintain their nuclear arsenal in a responsible way. This is why i said "In the same way a law abiding gun owner can buy a gun and then later very easily become a non law abiding gun owner." (ie. a criminal)
I bring up Jared Loughner because this was someone who had been kicked out of their community college and told they couldn't return without a psychiatric evaluation. At least 2 of his classmates thought that he would commit a spree shooting months before he actually did. But he was still able to buy a glock and a 30 round mag the night before the shooting. He unloaded the first mag and was only tackled and stopped while reloading. He killed six and injured 14, if the background check hadnt failed he wouldn't have had a handgun, and if the 2004 assault weapon ban hadn't expired he wouldn't have had a 30 round mag. The likelihood of him injuring/killing an equal number of people with a standard 10 round clip is very low.

With how rare it is that people ever use their own guns in self defense, the likelihood of ever needing some military style weapon for self defense is extraordinary low. The United States is hardly the wild west anymore.

You can't say what he "wouldn't" have had. You cannot know that. It's not difficult to find pictures of gang members with fully auto AK's or ar-15's. Go rent a documentary or google a gang and you will see. Those guns float around everywhere. All you have to do is look in the news at the "fast and furious" bs to see that they are trying to find where the guns are channelling through because it happens so often. To say someone can't get a gun unless they go to a gun store is misguided and misinformed. Get your head out of the sand. Buying guns legally gives us the ability to know who is buying what. So what if 2 people thought he would go on a shooting spree? If you asked everyone that any given person knows, you will find 2 that would answer yes to that question.

You sidestepped my question. If good gun owners go bad, what about good drivers gone bad? What about good boaters gone bad? What about good motorcyclists gone bad? We should outlaw motor vehicles because of them right?.... since their numbers are higher than comparable gun numbers. Based on your logic that makes sense right?

 

[perfecxionX 10+ year member]

Guns are, and always will be easy to obtain illegally. There are no laws that can be written to prevent it. Drugs are illegal right now, yet anyone can buy them anywhere. Your entire argument cannot be backed up with logic.

Even if that is true, it certainly doesn't mean that they are as easy to get illegally as they would be if they were legal. You could really say the same thing about any illegal activity. Why criminalize murder as a preventative measure if people are just going to do it anyways? No one would claim that simply outlawing something will completely eliminate it. But certainly outlawing it will reduce it. Anti aircraft rockets are illegal. Tell me where to buy one if the ban on anti aircraft rockets is apparently so ineffective.

You sidestepped my question. If good gun owners go bad, what about good drivers gone bad? What about good boaters gone bad? What about good motorcyclists gone bad? We should outlaw motor vehicles because of them right?.... since their numbers are higher than comparable gun numbers. Based on your logic that makes sense right?

Like i said gun accidents are not of primary concern (however i may support a law that requires a lock on guns in a home where children live). Outside of target shooting, guns are made with the exclusive purpose of hurting/killing things. Very few people use their cars as weapons, and as i said, my primary concern is of the weapons that allow people to do things like the Virginia tech massacre -- again another high capacity magazine in the hands of someone with a psychiatric history that resulted in 33 dead and 25 injured in a short period of time.

 

[ahole-ic]

Even if that is true, it certainly doesn't mean that they are as easy to get illegally as they would be if they were legal. You could really say the same thing about any illegal activity. Why criminalize murder as a preventative measure if people are just going to do it anyways? No one would claim that simply outlawing something will completely eliminate it. But certainly outlawing it will reduce it. Anti aircraft rockets are illegal. Tell me where to buy one if the ban on anti aircraft rockets is apparently so ineffective.

You know your arguments are weak based on what you said here... but I'll tear it apart for you anyways.

Murder isn't criminalized to prevent it. It is criminalized to punish people after they've done it. You act like people killing each other slowed down once they passed a law saying it was illegal. It didn't. Look it up. Outlawing alcohol reduced its usage? Outlawing marijuana reduced its usage?

Anti aircraft rockets and grenade launchers are legal in afghanistan... yet you still can't just buy them unless you know where to go. Your argument is bs. Plutonium is not illegal. Aston Martin Vanquish is legal. Jessica Alba **** pictures aren't illegal. Super hot, horny, virgin, intelligent, legal women aren't illegal. Tell me where to find those. See? Based on the same logic, you can see how silly your point is.

 

[StickMe4myPaper 10+ year member]

there is no reason for people to have closets full of AK's and AR-15's... you're not in a real life I Am Legend. There's no need.

 

[StickMe4myPaper 10+ year member]

Anti-Gunners are some of the most biased dummys I ever met.....I mean they have never even owned a gun,trained oreven shot a pistol but they want them banned.......How about they learn some gun education and try a few then tell me

how bad they really are.....I have hates too but I hate them because I tried them first and made up my own mind

Yesterday some nut job drove a small airplane into his mothers house trying to kill her,should we ban small planes too?

So are you saying they should be legal because they are fun? that's a weak argument.

 

[pelekeliko 10+ year member]

there is no reason for people to have closets full of AK's and AR-15's... you're not in a real life I Am Legend. There's no need.

and there is no reason for people to collect rocks, books, paintings, cars etc. Its in the interests of specific people. If i had the money i would have a closet full of weapons, but instead I own only 3 handguns but even just having them I still dont get tired of shooting them. I cant imagine owning an ar, ak, m16 and so on. I would have a blast.

Your in the US, its called freedom.

 

[ahole-ic]

there is no reason for people to have closets full of AK's and AR-15's... you're not in a real life I Am Legend. There's no need.

There is no need for closets full of expensive clothing and jewelry etc.... but luckily this isn't a communist society. We aren't ruled based on "need". It's time people started realizing that what they think other people should and shouldn't have doesn't matter. They never stop to consider the consequences of those stupid thoughts and statements. Maybe one day someone will think you should have nothing but turds and HIV patients in your life. How do you like them apples?

 

[JEFFakaMAX 10+ year member]

And who are you to determine what my "needs" are? there is no "need" for a 150+Db sound system either, yet here we all are.

 

[StickMe4myPaper 10+ year member]

Having a closet full of weapons enough to take out a small army is quite different than those examples

 

[ahole-ic]

Having a closet full of weapons enough to take out a small army is quite different than those examples

Nah it isn't. It's no different.

 

[xX J Brutal Xx 10+ year member]

there is no reason for people to have closets full of AK's and AR-15's... you're not in a real life I Am Legend. There's no need.

there is no reason to have a trunk full of speakers either....but guess what.

 

[StickMe4myPaper 10+ year member]

‪Level 100 On Black Ops Nazi Zombies Ascension 'World Record'‬‏ - YouTube if this ever happens to you guys.. you'll live longer than me i guess

 

[perfecxionX 10+ year member]

You know your arguments are weak based on what you said here... but I'll tear it apart for you anyways.Murder isn't criminalized to prevent it. It is criminalized to punish people after they've done it. You act like people killing each other slowed down once they passed a law saying it was illegal. It didn't. Look it up. Outlawing alcohol reduced its usage? Outlawing marijuana reduced its usage?

Look at my words carefully. I included the words preventative measure for a reason. If you dont think that laws have any preventative effects, that people never think things like, "well if i murder my neighbor because he had an affair with my wife i will spend my life in prison so maybe i wont murder him," then i disagree but thats an argument probably best saved for another time.

Anti aircraft rockets and grenade launchers are legal in afghanistan... yet you still can't just buy them unless you know where to go. Your argument is bs. Plutonium is not illegal. Aston Martin Vanquish is legal. Jessica Alba **** pictures aren't illegal. Super hot, horny, virgin, intelligent, legal women aren't illegal. Tell me where to find those. See? Based on the same logic, you can see how silly your point is.

If anti aircraft rockets were fully legal there is no reason to think you couldnt just go to an internet store and buy it as you can with anything else, show me an internet store where you can buy an antiaircraft rocket just as easily. OBVIOUSLY, you can not do so, because THEY ARE ILLEGAL. To act as though obtaining something is as easy as "knowing where to go" and is always equivalently easy is absolutely ridiculous. Btw it is not accurate to say plutonium is not illegal, not just anyone can store radioactive material of any kind.

 

[StickMe4myPaper 10+ year member]

I understand the want for these guns, but i respectfully disagree with it. i believe they do more harm than good.