Ground Issue or Something Else?

[Zavenoa]

I'm having major problems getting my Mono Amp to work properly, it turns on and then almost immediately turns off sometimes. I thought it was an issue with the ground, so I regrounded it and it worked fine, but now it's doing it again. On top of the sub amp not working, my speakers put out a high pitch buzzing, which does not happen when the sub amp is working. Here's the current setup in my 2010 Toyota Corolla:

Head Unit: Pioneer AVH-X8500BHS

Front Component Speakers: Polk DB6501

Rear Speakers: Polk DB691

4 Channel Speaker Amp: Pioneer GM-6500F (760w max output)

10" Subs: Infinity Reference 1062w

Mono Sub Amp: AudioPipe AP15001D (1500w max output)

Wiring: 0/1 gauge power split to 2x 4 gauge, 2x 4 gauge grounds, 16 gauge remote (only wire in the system that is NOT OFC)

I mounted my amps on the back of my backseats. This was how I mounted my last system in my other car and it worked great. I tested everything after I got it all put back together and it was working fine, but no matter where I ground this AudioPipe Amp the same problem seems to occur after a little while. The Pioneer Amp is working great, I haven't had any issues with that. I thought at first it was the terminals that the AudioPipe Amp uses, they are very poorly designed at a 45deg angle towards the floor. If they had them at a 90deg angle facing away from the sub, it wouldn't be a problem. Right now I'm using 4g fork terminals that fit inside there, it was the only thing I could find in 4g that would actually work, aside from just smashing a 4g ring terminal to make it fit.

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Here is the power, ground and remote inputs on the amp.

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Here is the opposite side of the amp with all of the dials.

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This is ground for the AudioPipe amp, it's grounded underneath a bar that supports the seat backs, I used a dremel to sand and polish both the back of the bar and the surface of the car to remove all of the paint.

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This was my original ground. I started having this issue while it was grounded here.

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This is where the Pioneer amp is grounded, again I haven't had any problems with that amp.

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Here is the connection to my battery, I have a 300amp ANL Fuse in-line. This cable runs to a distribution block that splits it into 2 4 gauge wires and I have 2 150 amp Mini-ANL fuses in it.

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Here is a picture of the wiring under the backseat. Dunno if this will help, but I figured I'd include it.

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I went through the manual for the amp and in the troubleshooting section it has my issue listed, this is what it says:

Problem

The amplifier switches on and off.

Solution

• Bad chassis ground connection with amplifier cable terminals and battery terminals are oxidized low voltage from the battery remote wire is connected wrong.
  

I think that solution is actually supposed to be 4 different things, but that's exactly how it's written. I think it should be:

• Bad chassis ground connection with amplifier cable terminals
  
• Battery terminals are oxidized
  
• Low voltage from the battery
  
• Remote wire is connected wrong
  

I've double checked each of those things, my remote wire is good, I'm getting a pretty solid 12v, but it fluctuates by plus or minus a volt, which I believe is normal, same thing with the power, steady 12v. The terminals connecting the ground to the amp are solid and there isn't anything blocking the connection, and my battery terminal isn't corroded or oxidized.

The only thing it could still be is the ground to the car OR my Corolla just can't handle the drain the 2 amps are putting on it. When the subs have been working, I've noticed SLIGHT headlight dimming, but not enough to really even bother me. The AudioPipe amp had a sticker on it when I got it that said you needed to connect it with a minimum of a 1 farad capacitor, but everything I've read says those are a waste of time and money to install. I plan on doing my big 3 upgrade soon and I'd also like to upgrade my alternator when I can. For now, I just want to get this amp working.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and if you need any more info/pics let me know. I'm going to try and reply to this to post more pics if the forum lets me.

Click to read more...

 

[Zavenoa]

Here are some more pics of the install, I doubt many of these will be helpful if any, but I thought I'd post them anyway just in case.

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[AnthonyO 10+ year member]

Jump the remote from the 12v positive and see if it still switches on and off. Make sure to disconnect the remote wire first. That fluctuation in voltage could be the reason its switching on and off.

 

[Zavenoa]

Alright, I'll try that out tonight.

 

[Zavenoa]

I just thought of something, if my remote wire was causing the issue, wouldn't it cause the same issue in the other amp, or, can one amp be more sensitive to the remote than the other? The remote wire is just a 16 gauge speaker wire that I split to the two amps.

 

[Zavenoa]

I just went out to look at it again to see if I could figure out what the problem was and it's working again. I seriously didn't even do anything to it, I turned the car on so I could check the remote voltage again and it seems to be working just fine.

Here's what my milti-meter is telling me my voltage is:

AudioPipe Amp:

Power: 14.08

Remote: 13.15 (no flux)

Ground: 0.00

Pioneer Amp:

Power: 14.23

Remote: 13.14

Ground: 0.00

I seriously don't understand what's going on, hopefully it won't happen again, but this is now the 4th time it has so I'm guessing it probably will...

 

[Patthehat033 10+ year member]

It could just be a loose connection. Maybe the loose connection is at the remote wire wherever you have it ran to, to get voltage. (Ex. the remote wire on your radio). When the amp kicks off, go back and see if it is in protection mode, or if it is completely turned off. If it is in protection mode something is wrong. If it is completely off, then there is a loose connection either internally in the amp or bad wiring. If the amp turns completely off, while it is off, take a multimeter and check the rem. voltage and the voltage at the power terminals.

 

[Zavenoa]

It's not loose at the wiring harness, I soldered all of the connections and used heat shrink wrap after testing them, plus I double checked it before. It's got to be the connection at the amp. Other than the way they designed the input terminals, it's a great amp, but these might ruin the thing entirely in my mind.

I used these 12-10 Gauge Flat-Pin Connectors for the wires I ran to the subs, but I can't find anything similar in a 4 gauge for the power and ground wiring.

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[Patthehat033 10+ year member]

Yeah it is probably not that, but it doesn't hurt to check. You will know if it is the rem. wire if the voltage is next to 0, when the amp is off. If it is in protect that is a different story.

Personally I wouldn't run pins into the amplifier, I would just splice all your wires as best you can and jam them in the holes and bolt them down tight, that is the way to get the best connection. Just make sure there is not a bunch of extra copper strands popping out of the holes or they could short.

If your amp is tuned wrong it could also be going into protect either from a voltage drop, or a clip detector if it has one, but I doubt it.

But check the amp when it kicks off and see if it is in protect mode before you do anything else, to eliminate that from the situation.

 

[Zavenoa]

Yea, it's starting to sound like it's going into protect mode, to be honest, you're probably right about it being tuned wrong. I'm still figuring a lot of this out, it's been a looooong time since I've done anything serious with my stereo and I never had the cash to buy anything close to what I've put in this system.

I tried jamming all of the wires into the holes as well, I would have had to cut them down to like 8 gauge or 10 gauge wires to get them even close to fitting. I have no idea why they would make an amp that requires this much power and then make the input holes so small.

 

[jerryp.]

I tried jamming all of the wires into the holes as well, I would have had to cut them down to like 8 gauge or 10 gauge wires to get them even close to fitting. I have no idea why they would make an amp that requires this much power and then make the input holes so small.

I feel you on that one lol

Have you tuned it with a DMM? Are you using the same headunit from your previous car? If your preamp voltage is high and you have your gains high you will get clipping.

 

[robert420 10+ year member]

judging by one of the pics. it looks like your running your RCAs, and remote wire rather close to the power cables... might wanna separate that

 

[Zavenoa]

The power and remote wires are only close to the RCAs and Speaker wires under the seat. The RCAs and speaker wires are run along the sides of the car (Sub RCA on driver side, speaker RCA on Passenger) and the power and remote wires are run under the carpet through the center console. Eventually, they won't be anywhere near each other, but I want to get this amp issue fixed first.

I now know that the amp is not going into protect mode, the issue is somewhere else. I don't think it's the ground either. I took it to Best Buy and had one of the guys at the install bay there take a look at my ground wires and he said they looked fine. I didn't think that was the issue anyway. If it was, the issue with the power wouldn't be so random.

For example, today I drove 2 miles to pick up a Pizza, the amp was working fine on the way there. I turned my car off, went in and picked up the Pizza, and when I came back out and turned my car on the amp turned on and immediately turned back off. I drove back home, ate, and then got back in my car and drove to Best Buy (also 2 miles, right next to the Pizza place) and the amp was working just fine. On the way back, same issue, amp turned on and then turned right back off. When I got home I went out to take pictures of what the lights look like and now it's working just fine again. Here are pictures of the lights to give a better idea.

Car/Amp is Off:

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When I turn the car on the Amp first goes into Protect mode:

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After a couple of seconds, the Amp switches from Protect mode to Power:

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Proper Sequence:______________Protect Mode Sequence:______My Sequence when Not Working:

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If the amp were going into Protect mode, when I started the car the red LED would light up, then after a couple seconds the red LED would turn off and the blue LED would light up, but quickly switch back to the red LED, which would remain lit. The issue I'm having causes the lights to turn off all together after cycling from Protect to Power like it normally should.

I'm sick of dealing with this, I think most of my problem is this amp. In defense of AudioPipe I'm a moron and twice I cross-wired the power and ground, which probably fried the thing. I thought it was fine because it seemed to be working fine at first, but now I'm thinking I probably did some serious damage to it. I'm going to replace my Distribution Block first to see if that is the problem, because it took a beating when I cross-wired the amp. I'm going to open the amp up and see if there is any visible damage.

The Pioneer amp I bought has worked great for me, so I think I'm going to go with another one of those, maybe the GM-D9601. If I were willing to spend the money, I'd go with a higher end amp, but I've already spent way more than I intended to on this system and I still need to build a custom box, Dynamat everything, upgrade the big 3 and my alternator, and possibly pick up a 3 way crossover and o-scope if I can't get it tuned the way I want it with what I've got.

 

[Zavenoa]

So I'm pretty sure it was the amp, I'm not gonna blame AudioPipe seeing as I cross wired the ground and power TWICE //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/suicide.gif.a649d21efc0d1fd4890a6428166586c1.gif and easily could have damaged it, but I certainly didn't replace it with another AudioPipe amp either. I went with the Pioneer GM-D9601 which seems to be working great.

Personally I wouldn't run pins into the amplifier, I would just splice all your wires as best you can and jam them in the holes and bolt them down tight, that is the way to get the best connection. Just make sure there is not a bunch of extra copper strands popping out of the holes or they could short.

I took your advice here as well and chopped off the terminals and was able to EASILY fit 4 gauge wiring into the GM-D9601, which had larger inputs than the AudioPipe (was nice). I tossed the terminals I was using for the subs as well and just cut down the wire I used for those so it fit.

I've still got 2 primary things to fix. One is the rattle. The whole car needs sound deadener, which I think will be my next project. I have 2 prefab boxes (I know, they are junk) but I didn't want to invest the time learning how to build them yet and I wanted to find out how big of a difference there was between a sealed and a ported box. I reinforced my ported box with a thick layer on silicone and added a bunch of polyfill to it, and it sounds much better. The sealed box seems to bottom out on the lows (kind of expected) and uses far more power (also as expected) so right now I'm partial to the ported box, even though it takes up double the trunk space.

I'm gonna run it by a custom shop near by to see if they can give me a quote on dynamating the worst spots for now. I think my wife is near her limit on the amount of time I've spent on this, and the big rattles really sound like crap.

 

[Zavenoa]

Wrong again, AudioPipe amp is fine, nothing wrong with it. My brand new Pioneer amp did it to me today, I pulled over, looked at it, turned on the ACC it cycled fine, turned the car on, it tried to power up and then shut down. I shut the car off, closed the trunk, started the car back up and it was working again. This has to be due to too much power draw from the battery. The new distrobution block I installed has a digital display of the volts I'm getting and it's pretty steady at 12V, although I did see it hit 13.5V at one point. It doesn't seem to fluxuate once the car is turned on, but does seem to vary from 12V flat to 13.5V which was the highest I've ever seen it, when I checked today it was at 12.4V.

3160 watts must be far too much draw, which is not a surprise. I'm going to do the big 3 upgrade tomorrow using 1/0 OFC wiring and plan on adding a 300amp fuse inline. I am also going to research upgraded batteries and swap my factory battery out for a better one. If that doesn't work I'll have to break down and drop the $400 on a HO alternator. If that STILL doesn't work, then it's time to add a 2nd batt. I'll update as I get this stuff done. At this point I've elimiated all other possibilities.