Fuzzy/buzzy speakers, but ground/power/amp all work in other configurations.

[Tbonem3]

Really stumped here.

I was getting a buzzing noise (especially on lower fq like 500-100hz) from the woofers. I wired the woofers to my other amp (I run 2, 4ch amps) and the sound became clear again, so I figured it was the amp. But then I tried two other, perfectly working amps, with the original ground and power wires and the buzzing came back.

So I excluded the amp as the culprit.

I used those same ground and power wires and ran them to the amp that I wasn't having issues with and the sound was perfect, so it's not the ground or power wire either! And it's not the speakers!

WTH? I'm going nuts here. I'm grounded to the metal floor - I drilled a hole and then wire brushed around it, clean as a mirror. I've grounded both amps to this spot - the ground wires are 6" and 8" long, so very short. Both amps are not touching any metal, either with rubber isolators or a carpeted sheet of thin plywood.

Both power wires come from a distribution block at the battery. I thought maybe a low battery, but why would speakers from only one amp have issues?

Neither amp is being run that hard, gains are down. BTW, the buzzing happens with the engine off, gain turned all the way down or not, and it's only one with sound. So if there's silence in the music, there's no buzzing (like a ground loop) - only when sound and most notable in vocals. I have no alternator whine. There's no real white noise when speakers are on, music playing, but volume to 0.

No frayed wires or poor strip jobs on any of the wire. Fuses aren't blown. Seriously I can't think of anything else. Can't be the RCAs because they're (3) routed the exact same and they work for the other speakers. Not the headunit by that same logic.

What do you guys think?

Has anyone heard buzzing from a good speaker and only with sound/vocals?

The subwoofer isn't super far from the amp who's speakers are in question, maybe 18 inches - is the magnet creating a field of something? lol Why is there always a problem!! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

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[fly_marlin]

Really stumped here.
I was getting a buzzing noise (especially on lower fq like 500-100hz) from the woofers. I wired the woofers to my other amp (I run 2, 4ch amps) and the sound became clear again, so I figured it was the amp. But then I tried two other, perfectly working amps, with the original ground and power wires and the buzzing came back.

So I excluded the amp as the culprit.

I used those same ground and power wires and ran them to the amp that I wasn't having issues with and the sound was perfect, so it's not the ground or power wire either! And it's not the speakers!

WTH? I'm going nuts here. I'm grounded to the metal floor - I drilled a hole and then wire brushed around it, clean as a mirror. I've grounded both amps to this spot - the ground wires are 6" and 8" long, so very short. Both amps are not touching any metal, either with rubber isolators or a carpeted sheet of thin plywood.

Both power wires come from a distribution block at the battery. I thought maybe a low battery, but why would speakers from only one amp have issues?

Neither amp is being run that hard, gains are down. BTW, the buzzing happens with the engine off, gain turned all the way down or not, and it's only one with sound. So if there's silence in the music, there's no buzzing (like a ground loop) - only when sound and most notable in vocals. I have no alternator whine. There's no real white noise when speakers are on, music playing, but volume to 0.

No frayed wires or poor strip jobs on any of the wire. Fuses aren't blown. Seriously I can't think of anything else. Can't be the RCAs because they're (3) routed the exact same and they work for the other speakers. Not the headunit by that same logic.

What do you guys think?

Has anyone heard buzzing from a good speaker and only with sound/vocals?

The subwoofer isn't super far from the amp who's speakers are in question, maybe 18 inches - is the magnet creating a field of something? lol Why is there always a problem!! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

Well Pioneers have that problem where noise is introduced into the system because RCAs aren't grounded well. Try grounding them like this, I bet that will do it:

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/general-discussion/482416-how-do-you-ground-rcas-head-unit.html

 

[Tbonem3]

Ah, sorry forgot to mention I get the same results with my old Kenwwod x794.

But, the noise isn't there in the speakers powered by one of the amps, it's only speakers pluged into the second amp and all speakers are powered by one headunit. I even switched the RCAs around in case one pair was bad. But, I get the buzzing when I put a good amp in the "bad" one's place. But the ground is grounded to the same exact spot the "good" amp's is. The fuses are good. The wire is pure copper, 4 gauge, good stuff.. No kinks or frayed wires. Seriously I'm laughing while I'm working because there's no logic to this. I know, deep down, there's a mathmatical/physical explanation for what's going on. Hopefully someone can suggest something, by luck or experience!

 

[fly_marlin]

Ah, sorry forgot to mention I get the same results with my old Kenwwod x794.
But, the noise isn't there in the speakers powered by one of the amps, it's only speakers pluged into the second amp and all speakers are powered by one headunit. I even switched the RCAs around in case one pair was bad. But, I get the buzzing when I put a good amp in the "bad" one's place. But the ground is grounded to the same exact spot the "good" amp's is. The fuses are good. The wire is pure copper, 4 gauge, good stuff.. No kinks or frayed wires. Seriously I'm laughing while I'm working because there's no logic to this. I know, deep down, there's a mathmatical/physical explanation for what's going on. Hopefully someone can suggest something, by luck or experience!

So if one amp works, not just gonna keep it? I would ground the RCAs as above, what's the worst that can happen? It'll still be there.

 

[Jepalan]

This feels like a failing RCA to me. If one of the cables is intermittent then it can fake out your test results.

With the 'bad' amp in place and buzzing, wiggle each end of each RCA and see if the buzz comes & goes. Flex the cable near each connector as well.

It could also be that the 'bad' amp has an intermittent RCA jack and needs a re-solder. Wiggling each individual connection at HU and amp should reveal this.

 

[Tbonem3]

This feels like a failing RCA to me. If one of the cables is intermittent then it can fake out your test results. With the 'bad' amp in place and buzzing, wiggle each end of each RCA and see if the buzz comes & goes. Flex the cable near each connector as well.

It could also be that the 'bad' amp has an intermittent RCA jack and needs a re-solder. Wiggling each individual connection at HU and amp should reveal this.

Ok, thanks for the suggestion. I'm thinking it has to be the signal because the speaker works fine when wired to the other amp. The RCA possibility could be the culprit.

Fly_ - I've grounded a pioneer like that before, so I guess I can do it again. Don't like that we have to do fixes like that for best signal.

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

so.. is this an issue with ground loop noise, or a hissing or buzzying type sound from vocals and certain notes on certain songs?

 

[Tbonem3]

so.. is this an issue with ground loop noise, or a hissing or buzzying type sound from vocals and certain notes on certain songs?

The latter. No hissing or alt whine at all. So I'm thinking it's not the ground. I only hear it with music - but really at all notes/fq, just more pronounced on vocals (or easier to hear). But it's not the speakers, so it must be signal. The thing about the RCAs is, if I plug the perfectly working other pair of RCAs, it still does it. But this amp works, it produced no such buzzing when I had it hooked up in another configuration earlier. Also, if I remove the amp and take a good one and wire it up, it produces the buzzing too.

How can it not be the:

speaker

Headunit

RCAs

Amp

ground

??????

I even used the power and ground wire from the other amp and it still does it. It's like there's a Bermuda triangle in the place that I attach the amp.

Should I ground the amp again or in another way? The amp is not touching any metal currently (just the ground wire); it's sitting on carpeted board.

I'm out of ideas. Luckily the subwoofer doesn't make, or I can't perceive, this buzz (it's wired to the amp in question). I really like a little rear fill and I can't hear the buzzing from the rear speakers since the fronts are so much louder, but I know it's there (I just unplug the other inputs).

I'm going to try and put a DMM to the output for the speakers and see if I can pick up distortion.

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

are you sure your tweeters arent beaming or something like that? you've got the system hooked up active, so you might want to adjust the crossover points for your tweeters.

it's really hard to say, i highly doubt its an amplifier or RCAs, unless there's just one bad set of RCAs but you would of realized that by now when swapping multiple RCAs around.

have you checked your speakers to make sure they're not vibrating in the door because they're lose or something? everything has a resonant frequency, it just may be that your doors are around that 500-1khz range you're talking about and need some attention.

if you cant tell, it could be anything. troubleshooting and ruling out things is the way to figure it out..

 

[Jepalan]

Beaming is just off-axis roll-off. It has nothing to do with buzz. Although - it certainly is possible OP may have a damaged tweeter.

 

[Tbonem3]

It's not the speakers like I said earlier. If I wired them to the other amp, there's no such noise. I guess this is one of those problems that's impossible to diagnose over the internet. I'm just going to start all over and see what happens. Very frustrating that all of the components work, individually on their own, but when put all together create this buzzing noise with music. Process of elimination should have narrowed it down, but I've tried switching everything twice now //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

FYI, I went back to STD mode (passive) as I have enough headaches to deal with before tuning active.

 

[Tbonem3]

Ok, I tried another amp, brand new power wire from battery, fused. Grounded to the frame, shinny metal, new ground wire. Copper terminal rings. Still buzzing with music from whatever speaker is wired by amp #2 . Amp #1 and amp # 2 are wired the exact same way. Same fuse holders, fuse, same wire/gauge, same ground location yet speakers wired to amp # 1 are perfectly clear - only speakers wired to #2 make a buzzing noise. I DON'T GET IT!

I've tried 3 amps in amp #2 s location and they all do it. I take the RCAs from amp #1 , which is perfectly fine, and I plug them into amp #2 and the buzz is there. So it's not the RCAs or the headunit (HU is grounded to bare metal 6 inches away behind the dash). amp #2 (or whatever amp I wire up in it's location) is sitting on a carpeted board, touching no metal. I also tried placing it so it was touching metal just incase it wanted to be grounded too, but no change. The buzz is there with the engine off or on, so it's not a low battery.

I took a DMM and tested my ground, perfect circuit. Tested the battery, 12.6.

Speaker is perfectly clear, I take it out of amp #1 and wire it to amp #2 and it's buzzy. FML

Anybody???