For the last time, PLEASE: clipping does NOT blow speakers/subwoofers

[theCybe 5,000+ posts]

and acceleration is caused by ducks.

true story.

 

[PV Audio 5,000+ posts]

Actually, excessive mileage with improper tire pressure blow speakers. Your friend should watch his psi more closely on road trips.

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[Lakota 5,000+ posts]

PLEASE GO OVER TO THE MECA FORUMS AND EXPLAIN THIS. I argued about this topic for about 6 pages and nobody agreed with me.

 

[MTXman 10+ year member]

Let's not get all technical.

Many of the previous analogies are correct, like the one about jumping off of a skyscraper - that's not what kills you, the impact does.

For the common audio guy clipping does blow speakers/subwoofers. If you lead him to believe otherwise, much clipping will ensue thus blowing many speakers/subwoofers. Then he will come on here calling us all liars because he blew all of his subs from clipping.

If the amp puts out anywhere near the RMS (not rated, but actual) of the subwoofer, clipping will eventually blow the woofer, simple as that.

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Many of the previous analogies are correct, like the one about jumping off of a skyscraper - that's not what kills you, the impact does.

The problem with almost all the analogies so far is that they are incorrect, including this one.

To make a completely accurate analogy, we must represent all (or at least most) of the key variables from the clipping argument.

In the case of the analogy above...

Let's assume we have a person (you) holding a melon (or a baby, if you want to be funny about it). There is a ladder standing on a cement floor in front of you. If you climb the first rung of the ladder and drop the melon, it is likely to land safely. If you climb to the top of the ladder and drop the melon, it is completely possible that you will damage it.

In case you haven't guessed it, the melon is roughly analogous to a speaker. The melon will survive if dropped from a low height (ie. low power); however, if we go up the ladder (increase the gain), the height the melon falls increases and the melon is more likely to be damaged. So the question is: what causes this damage?

Well, it should be obvious: the melon is not damaged because you went up the ladder! It is damaged because the distance it traveled (ie. power) has increased. Suppose a very short ladder is used: even if we climb to the top (increase the gain), we are not likely to damage the melon because the distance it falls from (again, power) is not great enough.

We could also substitute the melon with, say, a bowling ball that is able to withstand greater force upon impact....this is roughly analogous to using a speaker capable of handling more power. Now, we can use an even taller ladder (amplifier with more power) before the bowling ball (speaker) is damaged in anyway. Still, it is the total distance the ball travels (power through the speaker) that matters, not whether you are on the first rung or the last rung of the ladder.

The gun vs bullet analogy is, of course, equally flawed. It is neither the bullet nor the gun that kills you (ever been shot by a paintball gun?)....it should be seen that this analogy is lacking the necessary rigor to make it useful.

Let's not get all technical.

No, let's get all technical, for that is where the answers are found. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[newusername 10+ year member]

Also, people should notice that everyone who has supported this concept (re: clipping doesn't blow speakers) will likely still agree with me that the input sensitivity should be matched to the preout voltage of your HU (and not with a DMM either....please stop using that method). This is simply a clarification of what clipping really is and a necessary explanation of what damages a driver....power, and power alone.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Its as if you are saying tire pressure has nothing to do with it, at all.

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

Also, people should notice that everyone who has supported this concept (re: clipping doesn't blow speakers) will likely still agree with me that the input sensitivity should be matched to the preout voltage of your HU (and not with a DMM either....please stop using that method). This is simply a clarification of what clipping really is and a necessary explanation of what damages a driver....power, and power alone.

But to get real technical its actually the heat from the power and not the power itself. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

And yes I know you cant have power without heat. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

But has anyone, real world, tested if clipping will produce heat faster than unclipped power?

You may be surprised.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

But to get real technical its actually the heat from the power and not the power itself. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

Actually, its the molecular degradation from the heat, not the heat itself, that causes the coil to melt and the circuit to fail.
And the heat is caused by friction, not from the power itself.

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[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

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[newusername 10+ year member]

But to get real technical its actually the heat from the power and not the power itself. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif
And yes I know you cant have power without heat. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

You're really saying the same thing if we assume a fixed coil resistance. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

But has anyone, real world, tested if clipping will produce heat faster than unclipped power?

You may be surprised.

Mike Edgar (goes by 95Honda on a few forums) did a test a while back that showed exactly what you're looking for. I'll see if The Wayback Machine has it....

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

You're really saying the same thing if we assume a fixed coil resistance. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

I know I was just teasing. It wasnt to be taken seriously. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Mike Edgar (goes by 95Honda on a few forums) did a test a while back that showed exactly what you're looking for. I'll see if The Wayback Machine has it....

That would be great. It would be nice to see someone else's findings on this.

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

Actually, its the molecular degradation from the heat, not the heat itself, that causes the coil to melt and the circuit to fail.
And the heat is caused by friction, not from the power itself.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

I never said heat was created by power. I said you cant have power without heat. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I never said heat was created by power. I said you cant have power without heat. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

You can if you have no friction. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Or, more realistically, the amount of friction dictates heat generated just as much as the power present. In terms of this discussion, the resistance of the coil affects it just as much as the amount of current passing through this coil.
If we are gonna get all nit picky technical. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

You can if you have no friction. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Or, more realistically, the amount of friction dictates heat generated just as much as the power present. In terms of this discussion, the resistance of the coil affects it just as much as the amount of current passing through this coil.
If we are gonna get all nit picky technical. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Real world apps, power will always have friction. We dont exist in a vacuum. Nor did I say power is the only cause of heat. But thank you for clarifying for the noobs. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif