fatmat or edead 45?

[Rudy 10+ year member]

Also, heat is a catalyst. Testing with higher heat levels than normal is much like exposing the product to lower heat levels over a longer time period. Asphalt degrades over time when exposed to lower heat levels than that the relatively short time period the SDS tests provided.

And here's the even more important point - even if asphalt was the most durable substance known to man, it is a terrible vibration damper. Constrained layer dampers rely on the adhesive and its interaction with the constraining layer (foil for these products). Nothing happens if the adhesive doesn't have the material property viscoelasticity. Butyl does asphalt doesn't. Beyond that, you need a foil with enough stiffness to resist deformation of the adhesive when it is excited by vibration. It's really that simple. The biggest mistake I made in the SDS was underplaying the role of viscoelasticity - it just seemed too fanciful and more the stuff of marketing hype than reality. Everything I have learned since points to constrained viscoelasticity being by far the most important mechanism at work. Mass loading is almost useless and stiffening requires a completely different approach.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

You guys................show such tough love!
Maybe one day I will actually care what you all say. I am usually with most of you about what you say.......minus Foxpro, because he is so arrogant and blatantly obvious and feel he is just a tool.

Audioholic has had mucho bad experience with ED, which is well known and same with douchenugget Foxpro. You all like what you like and I see there are well known facts about these deadeners and I have had other stuff fail on me in other aspects of stuff in the audios, but never in any deadener. My friend still has very old fatmat in his car and still holding up just fine..........rather it not be classified as deadener, then whatever, I just know it has helped do what he wanted it too, along with in my case with my current car.

Now I am done with this......maybe. I love getting your guys panties in a bunch, especially you foxy lady.

You care what we all say, no matter what you want to convince us of. You wouldn't come here and post info you know will be unpopular unless you cared about the reaction it will cause. The 'getting our panties in a bunch' mentality. Its much the same reason na_rsx keeps coming back to thread after thread with the same bullshit logic you use... 'I have some that stayed stuck so its worth buying'.
I have not had 'mucho bad experience' with eD, I have simply chosen to accept facts bout the company without letting some personal bias for them or their products interfere with me seeing the truth. For example, they have shown a propensity to market substandard damping mat while claiming its superior. Yet now that we show a propensity to question products they market, due to their history, we are labeled as 'biased' or on some sort of bandwagon to hate on eD and Ben. I could hve gone my entire lifetime without hating eD or any audio manufacturer, it is not my fault eD has shown themselves to be crooks time and time again. You do not even have to have direct experience with eD products to know this, all the evidence you could want is out there. Threads with Ben saying 'oops I measured the mat for advertised weight/mass specs without removing the backing material first, or even the center tube the roll come on' followed by 'oh and oops, looks like our scale needs recalibrated'. Websites from independent third parties showing the extreme similarities between the W7 frame and the initially proposed eD frame. Letters from JL lawyers explaining that they will sue if eD continues to try and use/sell/market patented technology off their W7 on eD's new "W7 killer" subwoofer. Pics of eD's old website whose intentionally ambiguous wording made their V1 aphalt mat appear to be butyl rubber based. Need I go? Tell me, are these all bad experiences I, audioholic personally, have had? No, these are examples of public knowledge where a company lied, cheated and stole to earn a buck. Yet we still have lemmings like na_rsx here who defend them, because it makes them feel righteous, his own little personal cause. Im sure Hitler had his defenders whom didn't really want to accept the truth, too.

Yes, I just compared eD to Hitler. I apologize, to Hitler.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

And here's the even more important point - even if asphalt was the most durable substance known to man, it is a terrible vibration damper. Constrained layer dampers rely on the adhesive and its interaction with the constraining layer (foil for these products). Nothing happens if the adhesive doesn't have the material property viscoelasticity. Butyl does asphalt doesn't. Beyond that, you need a foil with enough stiffness to resist deformation of the adhesive when it is excited by vibration. It's really that simple. The biggest mistake I made in the SDS was underplaying the role of viscoelasticity - it just seemed too fanciful and more the stuff of marketing hype than reality. Everything I have learned since points to constrained viscoelasticity being by far the most important mechanism at work. Mass loading is almost useless and stiffening requires a completely different approach.

Yep, Ive learned alot in the past couple years on it myself. I personally have Foxpro and yourself to thank for that.
Asphalt tends to harden over time. Hotter conditions simply means it hardens quicker, even if it never comes close to the melting temps your now famous tests show. In my early years I would many times heat a piece of asphalt so hot with the heat gun that it would turn hard and brittle in spots or on the edges once it cooled.... little did I know. People make the arguement cars dont get to 180 degrees. As you point out, they can. And also true is, they dont have to in order to render the asphalt completely useless in terms of its visceolastic nature. Even the heating of the mat to apply it breaks it down.

With the sheers number of reasons butyl mat is superior to asphalt mat, for only approx 50% more money, it amazes me some people who claim they are educated (on the subject, or in general once presented with the facts) still argue to use asphalt mat.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

I laugh @ BBT for thinking he has panty bunching capabilities. And how is he done with this? It doesn't seem like he ever started.

 

[na_rsx 10+ year member]

Im insulted you dont include me in your list of idiots.
Frankly, Im tired of repeating the same stuff to you in every one of these threads. Tell me this makes me look bad all you want, I dont care anymore, Im with Foxpro.... you sir, are an idiot.

You've been reminded adhesion is not the only aspect that makes a damping mat viable, many many times before. Yet in every one of these threads you come back with the same flawed arguments, nd claim the guys with the math, the science and the well documented testing are the ones just riding a bandwagon. So, you either have a personal and hidden agenda that has nothing to do with the truth... or you are just an idiot.

Grasp for reality, you've lost it.

I didnt need to include you because everybody knows how you feel about ED, no surprise there.

If your tired of repeating the same stuff to me then shut up and get out of this thread, to be frank.

Also the guy who has the documented testing and science on edead was on an old version, he even admits it. And no way i am defending the old v1.

So what does it come down to, no one knows what the new edead consists of, or to make you feel better "actually improved". So i dont defend the old stuff, because the facts are there that it was asphalt and it did ****, not denying that. But to bash something new that you havent even tried or seen a well test of, well shows how much of a dick you really are. Frankly!!!

 

[Rudy 10+ year member]

I didnt need to include you because everybody knows how you feel about ED, no surprise there.
If your tired of repeating the same stuff to me then shut up and get out of this thread, to be frank.

Also the guy who has the documented testing and science on edead was on an old version, he even admits it. And no way i am defending the old v1.

So what does it come down to, no one knows what the new edead consists of, or to make you feel better "actually improved". So i dont defend the old stuff, because the facts are there that it was asphalt and it did ****, not denying that. But to bash something new that you havent even tried or seen a well test of, well shows how much of a dick you really are. Frankly!!!

Did you look at the thread I linked? The versions they replaced the asphalt products with used a Mylar facing that only looked like foil. They claimed this product was better than Dynamat Xtreme. Leaving the adhesive failure issue aside, in performance testing it was no better than Peel & Seal. How many opportunities do they get to sell a product optimized to maximize their profits, blame customers for failures and label skeptics as biased? I would have ordered some of the new stuff to test, but the last batch I ordered came with a note making it clear they knew who I was and what it was for. To be completely frank, I don't trust them to send me the same product they are selling and I really can't be bothered anymore.

You make think I have ulterior motives for dismissing ED. Let me just say that I have had a long and absolutely bizarre history with them. I've been the subject of personal attacks by Ben Milne for daring to point out that the v1 was asphalt and not butyl as he explicitly claimed on ECA. Unfortunately, I have an entire bookmark folder titled: ED Lies in which they misstate all sorts of things and then attack anyone who attempts to correct the record.

Several months ago ED had a sale on the "eNetic 1/0" power cable. I had bought some before to compare to other products. Their sale carried the same photo the product had always used. I went so far as to post photos comparing eNetic to other brands, strand counts, conductor weights, you name it. Despite all of my problems with them over deadener, the eNetic was a very good product and the sale price made it very good value. What did ED do? They shipped out eBay style crap with very little copper surrounded by a stupidly thick insulation. Pure bait and switch. They are simply not reliable. Some batches of eDead v1SE² and v1² had good adhesion characteristics, others were terrible. ED claimed they were all identical and had passed their extensive QC procedures. Read the linked thread for their details on how they use a BBQ grill and a hair dryer in their QC. People may be pleased with their other products, but they aren't even worth talking about when it comes to sound deadener.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I didnt need to include you because everybody knows how you feel about ED, no surprise there.

But we are surprised at foxpro and rudy's attitudes on eD here? Or yours? Again I insist on being included in your list of idiots.

If your tired of repeating the same stuff to me then shut up and get out of this thread, to be frank.

Back atcha...

get tired of hearing the same shit from FoxPro and Rudy, even Ant.

Oops? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif If you get tired of reading the same facts that cast a company you like in a negative light, stop reading threads about eD. Its people like you that wont stfu that make people like me need to continue this 'debate'.

Also the guy who has the documented testing and science on edead was on an old version, he even admits it. And no way i am defending the old v1.

Oh, my mistake. Which version has been in your car the past 2 years?...

i have a good small amount of fatmat and and a lot of edead in my hatch and it has done me good for the past 2 years. most will say the same that own edead.

Oops again? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif

So what does it come down to, no one knows what the new edead consists of, or to make you feel better "actually improved". So i dont defend the old stuff, because the facts are there that it was asphalt and it did ****, not denying that. But to bash something new that you havent even tried or seen a well test of, well shows how much of a dick you really are. Frankly!!!

So the mat that has been in your car the past 2 years is too new for anyone to know what it is made of? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif
Or are you talking about the actual new version, with the mylar constraining layer, that multiple people have already reported to have seen the mylar and butyl seperating? That Rudy himself has reported to have seen himself upon testing a small piece himself? You mean that stuff? Or, has eD come out with yet another version, their latest 'best on the market' mat, since we were already on to the crappiness of their previous version? At what point does even someone as thick headed as you strt to become skeptical of a recurring pattern? If someone starts hitting you on the head with a ball-peen, how many bruises will you end up with before you ask him to stop?

I never claimed I wasn't a dick. Frankly.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

My friend still has very old fatmat in his car and still holding up just fine..........rather it not be classified as deadener, then whatever, I just know it has helped do what he wanted it too, along with in my case with my current car.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif Unreal the things you say, man. What a crackhead.

Now I am done with this......maybe. I love getting your guys panties in a bunch, especially you foxy lady.

No you're not because you know you cannot shut your FatTrap when you see FatMat posted in a thread title on this forum. Your worthless, anecdotal story is the same every time and you completely miss the boat with all logic as you balabber your way through it. Naturally, I have to call you on it because you clearly have a learning disabilty. If you and Tspency from DIY got together the Universe as we know it would implode. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif
Panties in a bunch? Check your avatar there Nancy boy. You can't decide which planet you're from? Here, I'll make it easy for you - it's Venus. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

BTW, the last time ED came out with their new "deadener" I asked legitimate, honest questions in a civil manner about their materials and their testing of them and the thread was locked immediately and the mod claimed it was "getting out of control." I tried to ask why and was banned. I think that put me in the ISUX 4 to 5 times ban club, I can't remember.

 

[Xprime4 10+ year member]

wow there should be a thread about all the inethic (non-ethic sp???) moves Ed did in the last years. That could send the compagny to rock bottom, like we all wish //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

they ain't Monsanto, they won't survive

 

[na_rsx 10+ year member]

wow there should be a thread about all the inethic (non-ethic sp???) moves Ed did in the last years. That could send the compagny to rock bottom, like we all wish //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif
they ain't Monsanto, they won't survive

keep wishing, its never gonna happen, this bunch of sour apples wont ruin the whole batch.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

keep wishing, its never gonna happen, this bunch of sour apples wont ruin the whole batch.

I was thinking the same thing! I hope that companies like eD and Fatmat don't ruin it for all the other legit deadener companies and cause people to think that deadener is crap and useless in general.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

keep wishing, its never gonna happen, this bunch of sour apples wont ruin the whole batch.

Pretty confident in your little personal crusade to keep a crooked company in business, aren't you?
The sour apple that ruin eD's bunch is Ben Milne. You dont deny all the things he's done in the past, you simply argue we should forget them. You ability to forgive, when the company shows no signs of changing, is simply stunning. Which is why I have come to the conclusion you have a hidden agenda. I use to wonder if you got paid to come here nd defend eD blindly, as I could see no other reason for you to take such a whipping over and over. But further thought lead me to realize even Ben would be smart enough to hire someone alot better thn you. So I guess we are just left with you being sadistic.

Personally, I almost hope eD doesn't go out of business. Ive grown rather fond of picking on them, and you.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I also notice that you failed to address the fact that you claimed, in this very thread, to not be defending V1, only discussing the most recent version... nd yet I quoted you saying, in this very thread, how great the stuff is that's been on your car the past 2 years. I guess you think if I dig up some embarrassing mistakes by you, you can ignore them and I will forget. I didn't forget. Keep talking out both sides of your mouth, I see right through you.

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

I was thinking the same thing! I hope that companies like eD and Fatmat don't ruin it for all the other legit deadener companies and cause people to think that deadener is crap and useless in general.

eD doesn't sell deadener, they sell roofing materials.