Egg Carton Foam Question

[donpisto 5,000+ posts]

Let me try to put it in anoter way...
Spread your woman's legs. Where her feet/ankles are is where the left and right of the stage is. What you want to do is stick it right between her legs (center focus). If you're off to the left or right, you'll probably hit her thighs, but that's okay, because rubbing the inner thighs and arouse her, but dead center is where the spot is... for her and for you.

If you're very far off to where her feet/ankles are, then you're just ******* her toes or licking her ankles, which might get her going, but it'll do nothing for you... this is all assuming one leg isn't shorter than the other.

Lets say you want to raise your soundstage higher and ***** **** her. It'll be best if both her tits are the same size, then again, you want to sticking right in between...

Helotaxi, what you're doing is rubbing/poking her left thigh and caressing her left nipple. You might have a fetish for that, but it's not how she wants and needs it. Stop being selfish and give to her right.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Best explanation ever. Period!

See, I think the misconception people get is that it sounds better being that the VOCALS are in front of the driver. Here is what a few others are trying to say. Sure you have the vocalist directly in front of you and it sounds fine and dandy, louder if you must say (there is volume knob for that //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif), but what if you play a song where you have two vocalists? One on each side of the stage and then a third jumps in center stage.

You also lose what the artist is trying to deliver through their music. I have messed with Adobe Soundbooth and have seen the crazy things you can do with editing music and I got a glimpse of what some of those gurus do. Why does this matter? Because sometimes you have certain instruments that play in specific locations on the stage. It can be up higher than center stage or lower. It can also, more importantly in this situation, be further left or right. Maybe once instrument is halfway from the center to the left and another kicks in all the way to the left. With the center stage in the center of the vehicle, you will notice that difference. With it in front of you, you will not.

Wanna test it out? There is a track on the IASCA disc with 7 drums, see if you notice the spacing between them. If you hear 4 or 5 of them coming from the same spot, your stage is way off.

 

[Lingerfelt 10+ year member]

If you own a McLaren F1, you're golden

Such a shame they didn't come with a radio, eh? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

Wanna test it out? There is a track on the IASCA disc with 7 drums, see if you notice the spacing between them. If you hear 4 or 5 of them coming from the same spot, your stage is way off.

I agree with what you said, but that 7 drum hit track is not very good. Ever try it in a perfect stereo set up with equal PL between your ears and the L/R speakers and the correct crosstalk? It still sounds like hits 1,2 and 6,7 are on top of each other. I've never gotten it right in my car and I know others who say it's of little relevance as well.

Listen to Roger Water's "Amused to Dealth" which is recorded in quadraphonic sound and mixed with QSound. If you have a narrow stage with that, I feel very very sorry for you.

 

[shaneb 10+ year member]

http://www.caraudiomag.com/reviews/caep_0804_imprint/multeq_filters.html

That's the review of Alpine's IMPRINT technology. It's rather fascinating and I think there is a very good place of use for it in car audio.

The review states that once you enable the IMPRINT feature, you are only able to adjust treble and bass. I beleive it would be awesome if you could use it as a reference point and fine tune from it. Maybe that will be a firmware update //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif.

This is great, okay, so I am understanding this properly. A correct sound stage, will be so fine tuned that it will create the ability to "see" different intruments in different areas on the stage, in proportion to eachother?

I gotta hear a good SQ car..

 

[Horsemanwill 10+ year member]

wow who would have thought that you Shaneb would learn from this place lol

 

[donpisto 5,000+ posts]

I agree with what you said, but that 7 drum hit track is not very good. Ever try it in a perfect stereo set up with equal PL between your ears and the L/R speakers and the correct crosstalk? It still sounds like hits 1,2 and 6,7 are on top of each other. I've never gotten it right in my car and I know others who say it's of little relevance as well.
Listen to Roger Water's "Amused to Dealth" which is recorded in quadraphonic sound and mixed with QSound. If you have a narrow stage with that, I feel very very sorry for you.

That's true, I wouldn't use it as a single measurement. I actually hate that track because drums 1, 2, and 3 seem like they come from the same place for me, but the rest are spaced out. I'll check out the song you mentioned as well, thanks //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Dude is crazy... he can't even her spot right. I feel sorry for that woman.

He better hope I don't get a chance at it. Bang Bang!

 

[donpisto 5,000+ posts]

Dude is crazy... he can't even her spot right. I feel sorry for that woman.
He better hope I don't get a chance at it. Bang Bang!

Easy with the double Bang tiger.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Easy with the double Bang tiger.

Well that's all he's good for, 2 hump chump if ever I've seen one.

Your analogy sucks, BTW. If everything was perfect, you'd be sitting exactly center and time alignment wouldn't be needed and everything would be great. She'd be straddling you and going to town. Reality is that you ARE lined up with one of her knees and her far foot is in cement along with your ***. Only way you're gonna hit that is by moving her near foot farther away and getting her to show you that she really is a gymnast. That has the exact effect of moving the center in line with you. If that's too much to grasp...nevermind probably too little...

FoxPro - how would doing time correction to the right side move the stage left? You can't advance only delay with every TA device I've ever seen. Only way to equal path lengths is to use the farthest driver as the reference and delay all the other drivers to match. Effect there is to make the near speakers seem farther away. And I fully understand the reason for going to great lengths to physically equalize the pathlengths, but that reason has more to do with angles than time and is also based on the artificial constraint of satisfying the desire of the sanctioning body which says that you should have a center image for both seats. This eliminates the possibility of using TA for optimizing imaging for a single seat and makes the pathlength equalization that much more important. Toss out that artificial limitation and a lot more is possible.

 

[FoxPro5 5,000+ posts]

FoxPro - how would doing time correction to the right side move the stage left?

Sorry, I said it backwards. My particular DSP looks at length, not time so I have to T/A backward in my car. I was thinking in reference to myself, not to what you'd actually have to do in your car to make the right seem closer.

Either way, who cares...it's your car so rock it out.

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

Silly guy thinks my analogy sucks because he doesn't understand it.

IMO it sure beats your analogies w/ your headphones, which you seems to ignore FoxPro's mentioning of the crosstalk.

..no shit we wouldn't need T/A if everything was perfect w/ equal PLDs, but we're talking about cars.. Come back to reality.

What I see here is that you're actually trying to convince us that the center image belongs right in front of the driver/listening position. That's just crazy talk. That wouldn't even be a center image anymore. It'll be a left biased stage. I've never seen or heard your car and I know for sure that your left stage doesn't extend far enough to have an equal distance from the 'center' image as the right side.

Some people like to do lop-sided women and I will accept that. I'm afraid we will have more people like this as the imprint will spread its evil ways and lame Time Alignment method and have people believe that's how it's suppose to sound.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

You want to discuss cross talk? How much cross talk is there at a live venue? Where does HRTF factor in? How do we perceive sound origin? Can I reliably get the image rock solid in front of me? Not exactly, but why the hell would I not try and just accept that the center of the car is where it "should" be because some rulebook says so and not at least try to improve my seat compared to sitting to one side of the stage which you seem to think is perfectly fine? Do you intentionally sit off to one side when listening to your home system? Since you have to in the car, why wouldn't you try to improve on that with the tools at your disposal? Just because a rulebook (which has no bearing on anything outside the judging lanes of the sanctioning body governed by the rulebook) says that it should sound like you have bad seats? That's just dumb.

Just because you think your analogy is clever doesn't mean that it's accurate or fitting.

 

[IDSkoT 5,000+ posts]

Thanks for helping me realize how shitty plumber's strap looks like.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

You want to discuss cross talk? How much cross talk is there at a live venue?

Unamplified?

None. But then again, that's the original event and not a 2-channel reproduction of the event //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif You must have crosstalk between channels for stereo reproduction to function properly.

but why the hell would I not try and just accept that the center of the car is where it "should" be because some rulebook says so and not at least try to improve my seat compared to sitting to one side of the stage which you seem to think is perfectly fine?

I don't aim for center of the car because that's what a rule book says.

I aim for center of the car to aim for center of the listening space, not my listening position. And as was noted earlier, your method results in a reduced stage width......I would rather have a wide stage width with spaciousness between images in exchange for sitting slightly off-center.

Wider stage width will get you closer to an accurate reproduction of the original event.....unless it was recorded in a space 3/4 or less the width of an automobile.

Do you intentionally sit off to one side when listening to your home system?

If you stand up and walk across the room, do you expect the image to follow you or maintain it's relationship to the listening space and original event (which requires great width) ? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

why wouldn't you try to improve on that with the tools at your disposal?

Improve is a subjective term //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

To me, you're method wouldn't be an improvement.

Some people still disagree that stereo was an improvement over mono. :shrugs:

Just because a rulebook (which has no bearing on anything outside the judging lanes of the sanctioning body governed by the rulebook) says that it should sound like you have bad seats?

See above.

I don't think anyone here, or at the very least myself, subscribes to the dogma of a center-vehicle image because of a rulebook. That's a little narrow-minded coming from you Helo.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

I can see where you're coming from, but wouldn't a better goal be to expand the perceived size of the listening environment? By delaying the near side speakers that's effectively what you're doing though I understand it isn't perfect due to the angular relationship between your seat and the physical location of the speakers. I can still "move" myself closer to the center by "moving" the near side speaker farther away. Yeah it sucks for the passenger because I've effectively rotated the stage and placed them to extreme stage left, basically looking right down the curtain line and slightly skewed the stage in relation to myself as well. I'm now at 15-30 deg off center compared to sitting in the outside section.

Oh and since there is nothing physically limiting the sound from the left side of the stage reaching your right ear, there is "crosstalk" as he referenced, even unamplified. "Crosstalk" is probably the wrong word though.

If you stand up and walk across the room, do you expect the image to follow you or maintain it's relationship to the listening space and original event (which requires great width) ?

Nope, sure don't, but I don't get up and walk across my car either //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif. There's a sweet spot and I make sure that I'm in it.