Ebay and the internet ruining the market??

[Omarvelous 10+ year member]

It's a buyers market, that's for sure;
If shops put more emphasis on quality of service and installation / consulting, and less emphasis on marking up kickers and jl audios, ..

I agree.

I don't see why installers salary would slip, you can't buy a custom fabbed enclosure/amp rack off of ebay deisgned and theft proff from ebay.

Less emphasis on products, more on installation/consulting.

Shi-t, if i was to open a shop i'd install external products, but charge higher if so.

If you buy from me, i'll cut you some slack, but won't try **** ya on the products.

Bestbuy and so on are the opposite, expensive prods, with almost free install. They have the economies of scale to do that.

 

[phantom240 5,000+ posts]

i'm not gonna lie, almost all of my audio equipment was bought off of eBay... but the stuff that i buy is usually stuff that isnt made anymore, like my alpine MRV-1507 amp... its an awesome amp, but not produced anymore. As far as my subs and other install quipment, i go to a local place called T.O.S (thunder of slidell)... they have some pretty hardcore shit there. I like it cuz the ppl there are cool and halpful and all, but the price of new audio quipment is outrageous... Now when i can make the kind of money where i can just throw down a stack of ben's and walk out with some band new thump, i will, but till then, i gotta scavenge.. just my 2 cents

 

[Omarvelous 10+ year member]

Also remember

Just because you make 50$ from a sub you sell that's not PROFIT. That is REVENUE!

Expenses - Revenue = Profit. So that 50$ of revenue can EASILY become 10$ of profit.

ALSO for sh-ts n giggles, most supermarkets make 1% in profit on what they sell. Some maybe even as much as 5%.

 

[3kgtAudio 10+ year member]

I agree.
I don't see why installers salary would slip, you can't buy a custom fabbed enclosure/amp rack off of ebay deisgned and theft proff from ebay.

.

yes you can

of course thats sort of my nitche, but ebay actaully sucks for custom enclosures, they just don't sell well. I cater mostly to online car clubs

 

[Prowler573 5,000+ posts]

I've NEVER seen a shop post it's installation prices.

I have. Heaps. More than a few around locally and every single audio reseller I visited while I was in South Australia had a board posted with:Install Rates ~

HU = $XX

Amp: $XX

Coaxial speakers (pair) = $XX

Component speakers (pair) = $XX

etc etc etc

You aren't charging the customer more to "teach him a lesson". You're doing the installation TO MAKE PROFIT.

Can't argue with that. No one wants to work for free.

If someone bought everything from your store, you're more then likely turning a decent profit, leaving you a little margin to cut a deal on installation. When someone walks through your door with their own equipment...you still have to profit from your services.
You guys can ***** and complain all you want...no one is forcing anyone to pay what shops are asking. If a shop tells you $200 to install an amp, that's up to you to pay. If you can justify the price, then ok. If not, walk out the door.

No issues with this either.

I totally agree with maybe charging a buck or two more for outside equipment being brought in, because if you have to deal with warranty issues or the product failing then you have that much more headache to deal with, if its something you sold then you could swap it out on the spot and call it a day.

I don't agree with it at all. Charge a flat rate for any basic install no matter where the equipment is sourced from. My local Diamond dealer will install anything you bring him. Regardless of whether he sold it to you or not ~ same price. But he's quick to tell you if it wasn't purchased from his shop he offers Zero warranty on the product at all. If it breaks right after the installers back your car out of the bay then it's your loss. You can make the decision pre-install whether or not you're willing to risk it. That's not to say that his installers do any poorer quality of work if it's gar from elsewhere - just that they offer no warranty coverage because he didn't sell it therefore can't guarantee something he has no direct knowledge about.

 

[alteraudiousa 10+ year member]

i'm not sure why people think this would ruin an industry. PCs and home electronics suffer from it heavily. look at the difference in prices between CAt5 cables. I can get you 1000ft for 50$ from my friend's site. I don't really think its hurt so many companys as usually this is a fast way to get their products in someone's hand. I can't sell my products at some of the ebay prices but i also offer alot more than ebay stores do. I email ppl, get on forums, and spend time with ppl trying to help them,give them insight and so forth.

I think the reason ebay is harmful is because it hurts the customers not the company. You don't always get what you ordered or get it in good shape, you don't know who you're buying from( atleast with a dealer the manufacturer has a record of who you are and where to find you), and you don't get the support you'd ever get from a dealer. While I might not do installation myself, i'l tell you i know just as much or more than the installers in BB or CC and everyone goes to them. For anyone looking to buy on the internet its all about asking the right questions and getting good responses back.

 

[Spooby 10+ year member]

I think the reason ebay is harmful is because it hurts the customers not the company. You don't always get what you ordered or get it in good shape, you don't know who you're buying from( atleast with a dealer the manufacturer has a record of who you are and where to find you), and you don't get the support you'd ever get from a dealer.

Yep, thats just like those buyers who bought from the ZEB and ikesounds recently. No customer support...heck sometimes you didn't even get the product you ordered //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/crazy.gif.c13912c32de98515d3142759a824dae7.gif

 

[OldOneEye 10+ year member]

I think that most people don't see the real picture behind all of it.

A few things come up:

1. "Dealer sheet" means a bunch of different things to different people. Big dealers get discounts off of sheet. Big dealers aren't looking at the same sheets that the little guy is. Think of buying a 6 pack of soda at the 7-11 vs. a pallet at the Pepsi destributorship (yes, some big accounts buy that much).

2. Ebay thrives because many manufacturers looks the other way and implicitly allow it. Do a search for your favorite brands on ebay, how do you think the product gets there.

3. How many people believe the "its all fake, stolen, refurbished, etc." line the reps and manufacturers have been pitching? Come on, the guys have 10K+ feedback, do you honestly think they can rip that many people off without them knowing they are getting baited and switched?

4. Unless you want the state's AG to go after you, warranties are a very touchy subject to mess with. JL can deny warranty because product has been altertered to remove serial numbers. Denying warranty on a product that does have serial numbers could be asking for trouble if the product is truly defective (and many of the manufacturers know this, so they will honor it if you threaten/sweet talk them).

Juan

 

[bimma85 5,000+ posts]

What I don't understand is why everyone thinks that car audio market (and consumer electronics in general, I guess) is the only area that high mark-ups taint the market price. How many people in here wear Nike shoes? Those things cost like $.15 to make because of the child sweat labor they use, yet they retail for well over $100 (sometimes lingering around $200). What's the mark-up on Tommy Hilfiger or Ambercrombie & Fitch? Hell, what's the markup on toothpaste?
Almost everything you consume has ungodly high mark-ups...that's the name of the game. That's why businesses are in business. Unless you are going to boycott the entire ideology of capitalism and a free market, grab the vasoline bend over and take it up the *** like the unvalued consumer you are.

what are you talking about dude? Since when does a business try to earn a profit?

 

[brocken 10+ year member]

I'll just throw in my two cents.

I would love to support my local economy and buy from a store. There are many problems with that. One, they never have a good selection. I went to a dozen stores and none had any speakers I wanted. Two, most don't know jack about car audio. You go to best buy or CC and they have no clue. Even the higher end shops don't always know much. And some of the mom and pop places are just downright shady.

and three, pricing is definitely a factor. I don't mind paying a little more to get it locally, I have like a $50 limit though. If I can save $100 or more by getting something online why should I buy it locally. Sometimes a shop will have sales on equipment and I'll feel inclined to buy something. Otherwise I feel like they're insulting my intelligence by expecting me to pay ridiculous prices. It's not that I'm cheap, it's that big places have huge markups on equipment. The mom and pop shops might not but I haven't found a local one I'd trust.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

And, again I'll pose the question; How are these products marked up any higher than anything else you purchase on a daily basis? What other products are you purchasing at or near cost, that makes the car audio products worth the same and not a penny more?

It depends on what type of consumer you are. Because I study value all day and night with securities, it is only natural that this cause one to anaylze the other purchases made elsewhere.

Take for instance, as you mentioned toothpaste. There are several different manufacturers of toothpaste. Depending on where you shop, the price is different. The price of toothpaste is usually more at Kroger's than at BigLots. As long as the toothpaste isn't expired, is there a great difference in quality between the toothpaste. Also, if you look at the supermarket industry there profit margins are quite low compared to other industries such as Merck, Frontline, Coke, AT & T, Bank of America.

Products purchased at or near cost: lumber. Markup on lumber is around 3-6%. Also, you can selectively shop (also known as cherry picking) to try to take advantages of loss leaders.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

On a different note, I think the manufacturers actually like people selling their products off ebay. Think about it. They can move more product without worrying about warranty or service. The create value in two different ways. They lower fixed costs per unit by moving more volume. Secondly they again lower costs by decreasing the need for after-sale support. The manufacturer simply wouldn't have to warranty those particular products. Therefore, they wouldn't have to take a loss on those that come back for service under warranty. Although such availability to the ignorant does diltute percieved product quality, it increases revenue, thus increasing profitability. And that is the name of the game.

 

[OldOneEye 10+ year member]

Risk and barriers to entry are also a factor. In my market there is a QFC (Kroger owned), Safeway, Albertsons and a Fred Meyer with Wal Mart super stores along the way. They are targeting very price sensitive people (and people who selectively buy loss leaders). Don't see to many mom and pop grocery stores left trying to compete on price (here that shop owners?)

For some drugs, Merck is it. The barrier to entry is high (patents, R&D, FDA approval).

Car audio is an industry where anyone can get in (look at all the sub manufacturers popular in each respective forum), the risk is low (buy stuff off the shelf and put it together with a slight twist) and no real giants to compete against for the most part (Most guys can't compete against a national grocery store chain, but Best Buy's handling of car audio leaves something to be desired).

My point is that the comparisons made are being compared against well run businesses which many car audio stores are not.

Juan

It depends on what type of consumer you are. Because I study value all day and night with securities, it is only natural that this cause one to anaylze the other purchases made elsewhere.
Take for instance, as you mentioned toothpaste. There are several different manufacturers of toothpaste. Depending on where you shop, the price is different. The price of toothpaste is usually more at Kroger's than at BigLots. As long as the toothpaste isn't expired, is there a great difference in quality between the toothpaste. Also, if you look at the supermarket industry there profit margins are quite low compared to other industries such as Merck, Frontline, Coke, AT & T, Bank of America.

Products purchased at or near cost: lumber. Markup on lumber is around 3-6%. Also, you can selectively shop (also known as cherry picking) to try to take advantages of loss leaders.

 

[OldOneEye 10+ year member]

We have a winner. Some still honor the warranty, but those who say no warranty actually save money by sending product out the side door and not having to do warranty.

At this point, for some companies its about minimizing losses instead of maximizing revenues.

Much more to this story, stuff I have heard you wouldn't imagine.

Hypothetically, what if a number of large transhippers in LA got together and had a buying group and went to Brand X and offered to buy $250K at one shot, what would Brand X do? This goes on right now.

What if Dealer X wanted to tranship and has a relative who wants to set up a reputable shop so Dealer X helps him so he can have access to product? This happens to.

What if Distributor X was selling to Transhipper X and they happen to be related so they don't charge them the normal profit margin because they are family and the savings get passed on to the consumer? I have heard this happens right now with one of the HUGE dealers for car audio out there that isn't authorized.

I don't want to pick on anyone, but publically traded companies are under alot of pressure to move boxes. In the past some have had to look the other way just to stay around as product went to dealers who shouldn't have gotten it.

Lots more to this story than meets the eye. There is more I could share but would probably get in trouble for if I got more specific.

Juan

On a different note, I think the manufacturers actually like people selling their products off ebay. Think about it. They can move more product without worrying about warranty or service. The create value in two different ways. They lower fixed costs per unit by moving more volume. Secondly they again lower costs by decreasing the need for after-sale support. The manufacturer simply wouldn't have to warranty those particular products. Therefore, they wouldn't have to take a loss on those that come back for service under warranty. Although such availability to the ignorant does diltute percieved product quality, it increases revenue, thus increasing profitability. And that is the name of the game.

 

[Flipx99 5,000+ posts]

Risk and barriers to entry are also a factor. In my market there is a QFC (Kroger owned), Safeway, Albertsons and a Fred Meyer with Wal Mart super stores along the way. They are targeting very price sensitive people (and people who selectively buy loss leaders). Don't see to many mom and pop grocery stores left trying to compete on price (here that shop owners?)
For some drugs, Merck is it. The barrier to entry is high (patents, R&D, FDA approval).

Car audio is an industry where anyone can get in (look at all the sub manufacturers popular in each respective forum), the risk is low (buy stuff off the shelf and put it together with a slight twist) and no real giants to compete against for the most part (Most guys can't compete against a national grocery store chain, but Best Buy's handling of car audio leaves something to be desired).

My point is that the comparisons made are being compared against well run businesses which many car audio stores are not.

Juan

Because they don't have volume, they shouldn't compete on price. Whole Foods is an excellent example of a company that doesn't compete on price. There are several obscure small cap companies that compete with the likes of Merck and Amgen, they just buy them out. (see amgen's recent acquisition of a competitor)

It is quite difficult and moreover a losing game to compete on price. For small shops to be sucessful, they must focus on service and installs, as previously mentioned. I would also say that turning away or obstructing potential business by not installing equipment not purchased from there is definitely not good for business in the long run. I do agree with no waranteeing the product, but as for obstructing potential business is not smart.