Ebay and the internet ruining the market??

[stones 10+ year member]

I live up in the Boony's and there is a lot of "mom and pop" shops around and they all charge based on same thing- perceived value of the demographic.

Big names like Rockford and Alpine are legendary to the local kids and they will give a left nut for the simplest of equipment, a Rockford P1 sub sits on a shelf wearing a 400 dollar price tag with pride and people pay it because they think its the best sub in the world.

Prices around here have nothing to do MRSP, its whatever the dealer can get away with, theres so many kids getting *** ***** around here you would think Micheal Jackson was in town.

Long live internet sales I say, eventually manufacturers are going to get the message "We know what that shit is really worth and your not gonna get away with it anymore"

Now there is a small percentage of private dealers that do there absolute best to give you good service and the best value for your dollar and to them I tip my hat, it's just a shame that they are so rare.

Heres an interesting thread where an installer gets a request to install equipment the customer purchased somewhere else, the general consensus is to all out *** **** him in install fee's to teach him a lesson for not buying locally.

http://www.carsound.com/cgi-bin/UBB_CGI/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=001153

Thats just sad, if you brought your Chevy to get an oil change at a Ford dealership would it be fair for them to charge you extra just because you bought your car at a different dealer?.

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

I live up in the Boony's and there is a lot of "mom and pop" shops around and they all charge based on same thing- perceived value of the demographic.Big names like Rockford and Alpine are legendary to the local kids and they will give a left nut for the simplest of equipment, a Rockford P1 sub sits on a shelf wearing a 400 dollar price tag with pride and people pay it because they think its the best sub in the world.

Prices around here have nothing to do MRSP, its whatever the dealer can get away with, theres so many kids getting *** ***** around here you would think Micheal Jackson was in town.

Long live internet sales I say, eventually manufacturers are going to get the message "We know what that shit is really worth and your not gonna get away with it anymore"

Now there is a small percentage of private dealers that do there absolute best to give you good service and the best value for your dollar and to them I tip my hat, it's just a shame that they are so rare.

Heres an interesting thread where an installer gets a request to install equipment the customer purchased somewhere else, the general consensus is to all out *** **** him in install fee's to teach him a lesson for not buying locally.

http://www.carsound.com/cgi-bin/UBB_CGI/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=001153

Thats just sad, if you brought your Chevy to get an oil change at a Ford dealership would it be fair for them to charge you extra just because you bought your car at a different dealer?.

How do you think shops make money? They aren't forcing anyone to buy anything from them...if I could sell a entry level sub for large markup, why wouldn't I?

If I had a shop where I partially rely on profit from product selling out the door, and someone strolls in with their internet bought equipment that they want me to install, you better believe that I will charge more then I would to someone buying everything from me.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Long live internet sales I say, eventually manufacturers are going to get the message "We know what that shit is really worth and your not gonna get away with it anymore"

Since when is a product only worth what it costs to produce? Because that's damn near all you are paying on ebay.

You know what will happen when manufacturer's "get that message"? They're going to start producing lower quality equipment with less performance so that it will fit into your view of what that product is "worth".

And, again I'll pose the question; How are these products marked up any higher than anything else you purchase on a daily basis? What other products are you purchasing at or near cost, that makes the car audio products worth the same and not a penny more?

 

[Jason Sybert 10+ year member]

How do you think shops make money? They aren't forcing anyone to buy anything from them...if I could sell a entry level sub for large markup, why wouldn't I?
If I had a shop where I partially rely on profit from product selling out the door, and someone strolls in with their internet bought equipment that they want me to install, you better believe that I will charge more then I would to someone buying everything from me.

X2 I would definantly charge more to install stuff that a person bought on EBAY.

 

[stones 10+ year member]

Since when is a product only worth what it costs to produce? Because that's **** near all you are paying on ebay.
You know what will happen when manufacturer's "get that message"? They're going to start producing lower quality equipment with less performance so that it will fit into your view of what that product is "worth".

I certainly don't expect to pay production cost on everything I purchase but I have worked in the "mom and pop" stores and have seen dealer costs vs markup and there is definitely some excessive gouging going on in my area, for example a 12 dollar amp install kit would retail for 99 dollars, a 125 dollar sub would retail for 425 dollars, a 175 dollar amp would retail for 600 dollars.

Definitaly room for improvment.

As for the reference to manufacturers, poor choice of words, sorry, should say dealers.

As for this installation thing-

When you walk into an install shop there is usually somthing posted on the wall that states general install fee's,

Head unit install = x $

amp install = x $

amp install kit = x $

Hourerly rate = $

ect.

Now by what the dealers say-

If a customer buys from your shop you might give him a little discount because you have already gouged him enough.

If a customer buys from somewhere else you charge him extra above and beyond posted prices just to teach him a lesson.

Thats nuts, just charge your posted prices. You make those prices based on what profit you need to make on the install to cover your shop supplies and employee wages, why can't you just leave it at that, why be a dink?.

In a nearby city there is an install shop that strictly does custom installs, they don't do any electronic sales at all, you can bring any product purchased anywhere and you will still pay the same amount. They are very succesfull and a testament to why gouging based on place on purchase is unessesary.

 

[imaspaceguy90 10+ year member]

I wonder how some of these shops can keep their doors open these days. I have worked in the car audio industry for more than 10 years and I am very familiar with dealer prices.
What blows my mind is that ebay sellers can be selling new audio equipment for 5% or less markup over dealer cost?? I am all for saving money, but it kills the mom and pop audio shop on the corner. Don't these companies have a mandatory minimum retail price that products must be sold for??

I do it too, I have bought stuff from ebay because I knew I couln't get it cheaper anywhere else. It really sucks if you are trying to sell anything yourself. I bought some Diamond audio comps less than one year ago, never got around to installing them because I decided to go with some Dynaudio comps. I will be dammed if I can't sell those speakers for even 50% of what I paid for them, and when I bought them it was pennys over dealer cost.

I used to make some pretty good money as an installer, usually about $3k a month, this day in age that doesn't sound like much but for being 21 years old it wasn't bad, and cost of living was quite a bit less back then.

I have been self employed for a while, but for a short while I considered getting back into the industry and becoming an installer again, but I will be dammed if I could find a shop that would pay a decent wage. Most places are paying around $400 a week, and I gotta say that this Ebay wave of cheap *** prices has to have something to do with it. I guess its time to move into another industry. Car audio was a lot of fun, but lets face it, its going nowhere. Back in the mid-late 90's it was the latest and greatest thing, with new shops popping up all over the place. But I think its run its course, and the only people left will be the big corporate shops (i/e circuit city, best buy etc) and the ones that specialize in hard core custom installation.

Anyways, sorry just venting a bit, I know saving money here and there is a good thing, but too much and then you cut out a lot of people that depend on it too.

Some manuafacterers sell there items for the prices tha delaers buy them for.

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

I certainly don't expect to pay production cost on everything I purchase but I have worked in the "mom and pop" stores and have seen dealer costs vs markup and there is definitely some excessive gouging going on in my area, for example a 12 dollar amp install kit would retail for 99 dollars, a 125 dollar sub would retail for 425 dollars, a 175 dollar amp would retail for 600 dollars.Definitaly room for improvment.

As for the reference to manufacturers, poor choice of words, sorry, should say dealers.

As for this installation thing-

When you walk into an install shop there is usually somthing posted on the wall that states general install fee's,

Head unit install = x $

amp install = x $

amp install kit = x $

Hourerly rate = $

ect.

Now by what the dealers say-

If a customer buys from your shop you might give him a little discount because you have already gouged him enough.

If a customer buys from somewhere else you charge him extra above and beyond posted prices just to teach him a lesson.

Thats nuts, just charge your posted prices. You make those prices based on what profit you need to make on the install to cover your shop supplies and employee wages, why can't you just leave it at that, why be a dink?.

In a nearby city there is an install shop that strictly does custom installs, they don't do any electronic sales at all, you can bring any product purchased anywhere and you will still pay the same amount. They are very succesfull and a testament to why gouging based on place on purchase is unessesary.

I've NEVER seen a shop post it's installation prices.

You aren't charging the customer more to "teach him a lesson". You're doing the installation TO MAKE PROFIT.

If someone bought everything from your store, you're more then likely turning a decent profit, leaving you a little margin to cut a deal on installation. When someone walks through your door with their own equipment...you still have to profit from your services.

You guys can ***** and complain all you want...no one is forcing anyone to pay what shops are asking. If a shop tells you $200 to install an amp, that's up to you to pay. If you can justify the price, then ok. If not, walk out the door.

 

[stones 10+ year member]

Its common practice to openly post basic install fee's in Saskatchewan.

 

[stones 10+ year member]

After some thought I can see where your coming from, American retail prices have far less margins for profit then Canadians ones do even after the exchange rate.

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

::randomly roundhouse kicks::

 

[duckfart 10+ year member]

This has nothing to do with caraudio but the college I attend to is selling a biology book for $106. I Bought the same **** book @ half.com for $12 shipped. God bless the internet.

 

[forbidden 10+ year member]

Stones, are you sniffing glue? WTF are you talking about. As a successful owner of a B&M store in Canada for the last 10 years, pull that hat up off of your eyes.

"American retail prices have far less margins for profit then Canadians ones do even after the exchange rate."

I would love to see your facts to support this. Price fixing is illegal in the US and Canadian market. I have watched prices drop in the 20 years that I have been in this industry, long before the big box and the net were here. To me it is all up to the dealer. The US market is 100% different than Canada, how can you compare us at all. I certainly do not know US dealer pricing, how can you know both? There are very few good shops in Canada vs. the US. The few good shops that are out there, of them, only a fraction of them post on line like this. The balance of them could care less at what some cheap pri*k kid wants to spend and where he is spending his money.

If you are cheap, you are cheap. If you have not found a good shop to go to, that is not the shops fault for being a moron, it's yours to ASSume that they were a good shop. Find a good shop and you will find things are entirely different.

Unauthorized e-tailers are a scourge that need to be wiped out. Don't share my opinion, wait until you get burned then. Then I can say welcome to the other side. A good shop will always survive by being different and offering products with value to the customer. A good shop will not gouge. A good shop is aware of the local marketplace and their competition. It's too bad that there are not more good shops left these days.

Look at these forums at the sheer volume of requests for help. Why do these people not take their questions to the local GOOD dealer, because they did not buy it there, nor pay for any type of service to do so. If price is what it is all about, you will get what you pay for.

Personally I hope that the manufacturers put big nasty clamps on the way that their dealers continue to do business. It will make it a level and fair playing field for everyone. If Crutchfield can do it properly, so should all the other moronic companies out there that are here today, gone tomorrow. You know, if I had a net based business, I too would give everyone amazing deals on products that I did not stock, got to sit on your money, give excuses as to why it was not available and then refuse to warranty it or give a refund. Yup, sounds like an ethical way to run a business if you ask me.

The net is here to stay, same with the adage, you get what you pay for. If you take all the value out of the product by making it cheap, don't take your cheese and whine show to me when you need help. Or should I charge you for the help?

 

[bbb543 10+ year member]

i only buy online because im too lazy and gas is too expencive to drive for 30 mins to a shop. I dont mind buying it cheaper off eBay and risking it getting ****ed. and besides the people at the shops here just have the job to have a job. dont really care about waht it is theyre selling. dont have any experiance with the installers around here however.

 

[Spooby 10+ year member]

..... at the shops here just have the job to have a job. dont really care about waht it is theyre selling.

Yep, and those are the ones that won't have a job much longer because of the internet. The people who care about what they sell and are knowledgeable will make the money.

 

[3kgtAudio 10+ year member]

I can't speak for other shops, I am sure some of them gouge pretty bad.

But for the pricing at the last shop I worked for, we chose a price that was somewhere between the suggested retail price and the minimum selling price, that way we had a bit of breathing room if we needed to cut a deal with someone, and my boss would be straight up with people if they wanted start comparing internet prices, even in some cases he would sell maybe one pice of equipment barely above cost if paired up with other parts. Labor was structured and unless it was something unusual or custom prices were fair across the board.

I totally agree with maybe charging a buck or two more for outside equipment being brought in, because if you have to deal with warranty issues or the product failing then you have that much more headache to deal with, if its something you sold then you could swap it out on the spot and call it a day.