Ebay and the internet ruining the market??

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

Id feel worse about the mom and pop shops if I haven't felt bent over and given it in the rear virtually every time Ive done business with one of these shops. Too long has car audio (and installation) been filled with voodoo that costs and arm and a leg. Simple sealed boxes made for $300, single sheets of dynamat installed in a door for several hundred dollars, etc etc. Not to mention the outrageous mark-up Ive experienced at nearly all the 'local' stores Ive been, being sold by 1) moron teenagers that know squat, or 2) moron know-it-all adults without a clue.

I feel very little pity for them anymore.

 

[theCybe 5,000+ posts]

^ as above, the only time I haven't been completely assraped at a dealer is when I went to buy a fuse.

I will install my own stereo, tint, and alarm; Thanks.

 

[3.5Max6spd 10+ year member]

Unauthorized internet sales open the gates for counterfiting and sales of tampered products, which in turn waters down a company's reputation because the first person the consumer points the finger to is the product/warranty, not the shaddy internet company they bought it from.

Ex. Removed serial #'s from amp internals, fake 'Focals'..etc..

Whats great about the internet and places like these is the USED Product market, because you are buying knowing condition, origin and the risk...but buy new?

No thanks. I've had too many kids bringing me faulty equipment to install, and then go ahead and resell it on fleabay ....

 

[joeboxer5876 10+ year member]

i buy from shops only if the warranty is worth it. i paid $400 for my 9835 but i'll be ****ed if i let them install it for free. i have a 3 year warranty and $100 store credit if its stolen. everything else i bought on ebay. internet is the way to go for me for the most part.

 

[Prowler573 5,000+ posts]

I reckon the question of is the internet and eBay ruining the market will somewhat depend on who you are.

The shops that like to gouge any and all customers when they walk in the door right off the bat (I think all of us have likely encountered something like this at one time or another) will fall by the wayside....those that haven't already, that is.

Shops that continually provide outstanding service (and that have established a rep based on that fact) will continue to flourish as there is something about a personal touch that cannot be replaced by buying online ~ and that some consumers will not want to do without. Some buyers will continue to patronize the retail shops for the expertise that is to be found in some as well as valid warranties and/or extended service plan availability (such as those offered by CC, Best Buy, etc) remaining a high priority for some buyers.

On the flipside of the coin the Internet has caused some businesses to expand exponentially, Take Crutchfield, for example. They've always made the lion's share of their money through mail-order catalogues, though they do have their lone B&M store in Virginia. Now that the Internet has crept into almost every home in America their potential customer base has expenaded beyond anything they likely ever imagined. Are Crutchfield's prices at or very near full retail? Yes, they are - but like was mentioned in a previous paragraph ~ it's the businesses that have staked their reputations on the level of service that you will receive each and every time that will weather the eBay/Internet sales storm and come out the other side juuuust fine.

Just my $0.02.

 

[flakko 5,000+ posts]

mmm there was this one website that was selling the USamps IS line for Dealer cost + shipping. i was like WOW.

but i think internet/ebay dealing is okay as long as the company allows it ya know. if its unallowed, then those compaines which are selling have a lawsuit on thier hands.

 

[3kgtAudio 10+ year member]

there is a required minimum retail price for most manufacturers, ebay sellers violate most manufacturers policies, infact some state that if you do not buy from an authorized dealer the warranty is void(I/E ebay seller)

In order for your mom and pop store on the corner to keep a line they have to stick to the guidelines, so what you may call assraping they may be selling it to you at the minimum they can. You can't expect to walk into and audio shop and pay dealer cost at the counter.

I understand most people only care about getting stuff as cheap as possible, but there is a limit.

just like when I was selling custom fit sub boxes on ebay, at my price(which was still at least $100 less than a shop would charge) i had people asking me if it came with subs and and amp(btw the box was $200), the market is rediculouosly cheap. Eventually smart manufacturers will catch on and regulate ebay sales a little better, some already are. Eventually it winds up as a hit on the manufaturers, because your audio shop on the corner doesn't carry them any more because of places lilke ebay, then people start *****ing about warranty issues and then blame the manufacturer for not covering them when infact is the e-bay seller that they bought it from who was at fault.

seriouosly, some of these sellers are only marking up the prices by maybe $5 each, they make their money on volume and not on individual sales. They sell 100 units a day at $5 each rather than 10 units at $50 markup where it should be.

Its great for the buyer, provided you never need product support. I always loved the kid that bought his shit on ebay and brought it into the shop expecting us to replace it for free

I dunno, but working in the industry and when ebay sales started to swell, there was definitely a decline in walk in sales. Most of the older/professisonal people still came in regularly, but the high school and college crowd I noticed did the most *****ing about the prices. We definitely didn't do what you would call assrapinig, labor rates were set at $40 per hour and each job was booked fairly, and our retail prices were actually better than most of the other dealers in town. But in the end, it turned into a hit in all of our pocketbooks, especially for shops like we were that paid on commission.

 

[DBfan187 5,000+ posts]

mentioned many times here http://www.carsound.com/cgi-bin/UBB_CGI/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=6

 

[Raven 10+ year member]

A reputable company won't be taken down by an internet dealer. Simply put, an internet dealer can't talk to you in person, or do custom work, or installs, or make calls of judgement, etc.

If the internet is guilty of one thing, it's making people stupid. Since you no longer have to go into a dealer and talk to someone experienced, you don't know right from left or up from down.

"Ooh! A Boss 3000 watt amp for $120! But this Orion 1200 watt amp is $260? The 1200 watt amp doesn't even list peak power? Pfft. Orion. What morons, Boss offers more power for less money. I'm going to pair it with these Audiobahn 15s and hit 200dBs like it says in that review on that site."

 

[theCybe 5,000+ posts]

http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/showthread.php?t=80390&highlight=mobile+electronics

that's why.

 

[flakko 5,000+ posts]

A reputable company won't be taken down by an internet dealer. Simply put, an internet dealer can't talk to you in person, or do custom work, or installs, or make calls of judgement, etc.
If the internet is guilty of one thing, it's making people stupid. Since you no longer have to go into a dealer and talk to someone experienced, you don't know right from left or up from down.

"Ooh! A Boss 3000 watt amp for $120! But this Orion 1200 watt amp is $260? The 1200 watt amp doesn't even list peak power? Pfft. Orion. What morons, Boss offers more power for less money. I'm going to pair it with these Audiobahn 15s and hit 200dBs like it says in that review on that site."

^^^ isnt that some of the marketing tactics of a B&M dealer?

 

[Prowler573 5,000+ posts]

there is a required minimum retail price for most manufacturers, ebay sellers violate most manufacturers policies, infact some state that if you do not buy from an authorized dealer the warranty is void(I/E ebay seller)

And I think your average consumer is well aware of that fact - to some the considerably lower cost of initial acquisition is well worth the risk of buying product without a valid warranty. When buying products from a well-established manufacturer it is probably a fairly low risk, in the long run, as you're placing your bet on the manufacturer having built a decent product that hopefully won't need any warranty service.

In order for your mom and pop store on the corner to keep a line they have to stick to the guidelines, so what you may call assraping they may be selling it to you at the minimum they can. You can't expect to walk into and audio shop and pay dealer cost at the counter.

Again - your average buyer knows this as well. But who isn't going to try and haggle a bit, eh? As eBay has taken the world quite by storm it is logical for the first bargaining point brought up would be that "Well, you know I can get it on eBay for $XXX.xx less...."

I understand most people only care about getting stuff as cheap as possible, but there is a limit.

Why should there be? You cannot change or limit the nature of competition. It is what it is. If you have product 'A' priced at 'X' price and someone else has product 'A' priced at 'Y' amount and 'Y' is a considerably better deal than 'X' ? All else being equal guess who's gonna get my money?!?

just like when I was selling custom fit sub boxes on ebay, at my price(which was still at least $100 less than a shop would charge) i had people asking me if it came with subs and and amp(btw the box was $200), the market is rediculouosly cheap. Eventually smart manufacturers will catch on and regulate ebay sales a little better, some already are. Eventually it winds up as a hit on the manufaturers, because your audio shop on the corner doesn't carry them any more because of places lilke ebay, then people start *****ing about warranty issues and then blame the manufacturer for not covering them when infact is the e-bay seller that they bought it from who was at fault.

Those consumers buying gear from eBay that comes with no warranty coverage due to being an unauthorized purchase that want to bring it to a local shop for repair when it breaks (generally from user error more often than not from what I have seen personally) I would imagine make up the minority of eBay buyers rather than the majority. I know full well when I eBay that warranty coverage most likely won't be part of the purchase - but if I choose to risk my money anyway then that's my business.

seriouosly, some of these sellers are only marking up the prices by maybe $5 each, they make their money on volume and not on individual sales. They sell 100 units a day at $5 each rather than 10 units at $50 markup where it should be.

I am also not naive enough to believe that authorized dealers are only making a pittance (as most of them would have you believe) per unit sold. Take my local DAT dealer for example. The D9 15" sub that retails for something like $700.......do I in this universe or any other believe he's paying Diamond $600 or more for it? Hmmph...I was born at night but it wasn't last night....
Try a different argument - that one's tired and done.

 

[Randy Savage 5,000+ posts]

The internet has done some damage to retail shops- but like I've said before, there will ALWAYS be a market for retail shops- there will always be those people that will not buy online, and will not install their own equipment.

If you're a shopowner, and someone comes in with internet bought equipment...you better be hiking up installation costs //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

What I don't understand is why everyone thinks that car audio market (and consumer electronics in general, I guess) is the only area that high mark-ups taint the market price. How many people in here wear Nike shoes? Those things cost like $.15 to make because of the child sweat labor they use, yet they retail for well over $100 (sometimes lingering around $200). What's the mark-up on Tommy Hilfiger or Ambercrombie & Fitch? Hell, what's the markup on toothpaste?

Almost everything you consume has ungodly high mark-ups...that's the name of the game. That's why businesses are in business. Unless you are going to boycott the entire ideology of capitalism and a free market, grab the vasoline bend over and take it up the *** like the unvalued consumer you are.

 

[Prowler573 5,000+ posts]

What I don't understand is why everyone thinks that car audio market (and consumer electronics in general, I guess) is the only area that high mark-ups taint the market price. How many people in here wear Nike shoes? Those things cost like $.15 to make because of the child sweat labor they use, yet they retail for well over $100 (sometimes lingering around $200). What's the mark-up on Tommy Hilfiger or Ambercrombie & Fitch? Hell, what's the markup on toothpaste?
Almost everything you consume has ungodly high mark-ups...that's the name of the game. That's why businesses are in business. Unless you are going to boycott the entire ideology of capitalism and a free market, grab the vasoline bend over and take it up the *** like the unvalued consumer you are.

Not me, Sir Squeak //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/naughty.gif.94359f346c0f1259df8038d60b41863e.gif Nike doesn't make a shoe in a width that my big-ass clodhoppers won't bust the sides out of in fairly short order - and there's no way I'm going to pay that kind of money for shoes that won't last me. New Balance (in a Quad E width) FTW!

The overall point you're trying to make, however, is right on the money. Retail is retail. Retailers are in it to win it - if there wasn't money to be made then no one would bother.