Door and dash speakers- Coaxials? Components? What do I do?

[Siguy 10+ year member]

I've got a '96 Saab 900SE for which I want to upgrade the audio. The stock head unit hooks up via a proprietary DIN connector to a crappy 17-watt amplifier, which powers low-range 6.5'' door speakers. The dashboard, meanwhile, has 3.5'' mid/high range speakers. There are also some 6x9s in the rear. The door speaker amplifier is dead, and the stock head unit ***** (tape player is even broken!) I'm planning on getting a Kenwood KDC-352U to replace it.

So, anyway, I thought perhaps I could install a component system, and put the midwoofers in the doors and the tweeters on the dashboard. Either power it directly from the head unit, or use a small 2-channel amplifier mounted where the old one was. I was considering a either a Polk DB6501 or Infinity 6030cs.

However, I also noticed that to buy two sets of Polk coaxial speakers, the DB651s and DB351, it would be about the same price as to buy a component system. This makes an amplifier necessary for the 6.5'' speakers, but isn't it better to have 3.5'' dash speakers instead of tweeters? Or does having full range coaxial speakers instead of midwoofers in the door compartment complicate things? I can't seem to find very many 6.5'' midwoofers, except for those included in component sets.

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[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

For simplicity, go with a normal 6.5 component set with the tweeters on the dash or pillars.

You could do a 3.5 in the dash but you need a dedicated midbass in the doors. Not another coaxial. You can get some from parts express or madisound. You'll need some sort of crossover though to set the points for the separate midbass.

Depending on how particular u are about your sound...do u just want it sound clean, or are u looking to have it image well and create a sound stage on your dash...you may or may not be up to the whole 3 way front stage and even a properly setup 2 way front can do VERY well.

 

[Siguy 10+ year member]

Hmm... When hypothesizing, things starts to get extravagant.

What if I were to put 3.5''s in the dash, and components in the doors? That way I'd have dedicated midwoofers, and tweeters, which I could mount on the pillars or wherever they sounded best. How much better would this 2-way component system + 3.5'' dash speakers sound when compared to the 2-way component system alone?

 

[mylows10 5,000+ posts]

a bit better ,you can also do a 3 way component system too.6.5 subs for the doors , 3.5 mids for the dash and tweets , need a budget tho

 

[Siguy 10+ year member]

I don't think I have the budget for a dedicated 3-way component system. I'm thinking, instead, the following: Polk DB6501 components, DB351 dash speakers, and a Rockford Fosgate R125-2 amp. Anyone else have experience with a setup similar to this?

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

I don't think I have the budget for a dedicated 3-way component system. I'm thinking, instead, the following: Polk DB6501 components, DB351 dash speakers, and a Rockford Fosgate R125-2 amp. Anyone else have experience with a setup similar to this?

You'll have two drivers per side playing the same frequencies which will result in cancellation.

Why not just do one 6.5 component set per side. Plenty of people do it and are just fine. If u wanna use those 3.5 spaces, you're gonna need either a dedicated 3 way set or the ability to run active crossovers and dedicated drivers for midbass,midrange and highs

 

[Siguy 10+ year member]

Okay. What if instead, I had just the 3.5'' dash speakers, and 6.5'' midwoofers hooked up with a low-pass filter?

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

Okay. What if instead, I had just the 3.5'' dash speakers, and 6.5'' midwoofers hooked up with a low-pass filter?

That could work. I ran quasi active for a little while.

Find a 3.5 coaxial u like and a 6.5 woofer. Make sure u have a way of low passing the 6.5 anywhere from about 300-500hz as well as a high pass for it so it doesn't bottom out. You'll also need a high pass for the 3.5s

 

[Siguy 10+ year member]

Okay. What's a good 6.5'' 4-ohm woofer?

And would this setup I'm proposing actually offer superior audio to a 2-way component system? Keep in mind that the factory setup is 3.5'' coaxial (but tinny) speakers on the dash, and an amp powering 6.5'' woofers in the doors... The only reason I want to put coaxials rather than tweeters in the dash is because I'm concerned that the acoustics are optimized for it.

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

Okay. What's a good 6.5'' 4-ohm woofer?
And would this setup I'm proposing actually offer superior audio to a 2-way component system? Keep in mind that the factory setup is 3.5'' coaxial (but tinny) speakers on the dash, and an amp powering 6.5'' woofers in the doors... The only reason I want to put coaxials rather than tweeters in the dash is because I'm concerned that the acoustics are optimized for it.

Budget?

And I would say it has the ability to rival a comp set when setup correctly.

Advantage of coaxs is a point source for midrange and highs which can help with a more natural sound.

Advantage of tweeters more aiming options for diff/better sound and imaging

 

[Siguy 10+ year member]

Budget... As low as possible. Under $100 for a pair of midwoofers. Preferably under $50. And if you can recommend better 3.5''s than the Polks, that'd be neat, too, but I liked the look of the Polks.

Anyway, I guess my instinct with 2-way components is that, between a 6.5-inch cone in the midwoofer, and the ~1-inch cone in the tweeter, and with the two being placed several feet apart, there must be something lost in the mid-treble range. I feel like my brain would make the tweeters stand out. Then again, that's just instinct, and I don't have any actual experience in this.

I'm also wondering if I'm going to need to replace the 6x9s in the back somewhere down the line...

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

Budget... As low as possible. Under $100 for a pair of midwoofers. Preferably under $50. And if you can recommend better 3.5''s than the Polks, that'd be neat, too, but I liked the look of the Polks.

For the midwoofers, look into Silver Flutes over on madisound.com

For the 3.5s, I've been pretty interested in these lately as budget small coaxials : WoofersEtc.com - KX 87 - Rainbow KX 87 Installer 3.5" Coaxial Speakers or JL Audio C2s (but they tend to have a very smooth sound that some do not like)

Anyway, I guess my instinct with 2-way components is that, between a 6.5-inch cone in the midwoofer, and the ~1-inch cone in the tweeter, and with the two being placed several feet apart, there must be something lost in the mid-treble range. I feel like my brain would make the tweeters stand out. Then again, that's just instinct, and I don't have any actual experience in this.

you're somewhat right in your thinking. Generally having your drivers far apart like that does cause the drivers to be more easily localized. Thats where processing and active crossovers come into play since obviously a car is not an ideal listening environment. You could mount the tweeters close to the woofers but your stage height may suffer....but spreading them out can cause them not to blend as well as u may like.....

You can try different crossover points if you're running actively to see which helps raise the stage the best blend the drivers. There are also some EQ tricks you can try.

Using the mid in the door and the coax on the dash has possible flaws as well. Like windshield reflections. Sometimes these can mangle your imaging, sometimes its fine. If you're looking to get a perfect image and a perfect sound, the best thing u can do is to play around with many options and installs and see what suits you best. I could tell you whats worked for me but we have totally diff cars and ears and equipment.

I'm also wondering if I'm going to need to replace the 6x9s in the back somewhere down the line...

Lets get the fronts up and running first then go on to rears.

 

[Siguy 10+ year member]

Are low-cost equalizers a good investment?

 

[Why So Cereal? 5,000+ posts]

Are low-cost equalizers a good investment?

Just wait and get a HU with all the features you need/like.

The Pioneer 80PRS is very nice.

 

[Siguy 10+ year member]

Eh. A $350 head unit would be too over my budget... I would get a double-DIN one if I had that much to spend, in any case. Plus I like the Kenwood's vacuum-fluorescent display too much.

Those silver flutes... How would they sound compared to some of the other woofers on that site? I know they have wool cones, but I don't know how that affects the audio.