Does my theory FAIL or does it work?

[TheeyaN 10+ year member]

I wouldnt turn loud on..

Loud and bas bost and sh!t like that are pure crap.. Would never use them.. But i just made an example..

@Plutoman--man u lost me miles away =) Check out my location lol ^^ i learned my english whilst watching Simpsons,so please easy with the technical terms,and use more laic word.. Maybe trow an example somewhere =)

 

[Plutoman 10+ year member]

I wouldnt turn loud on..
Loud and bas bost and sh!t like that are pure crap.. Would never use them.. But i just made an example..

@Plutoman--man u lost me miles away =) Check out my location lol ^^ i learned my english whilst watching Simpsons,so please easy with the technical terms,and use more laic word.. Maybe trow an example somewhere =)

Alright //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Throw in an example with a subwoofer.

You know how it'll peak at a certain frequency? Especially with ported boxes, there's a note that it's loudest on. Based on the characteristics of the sub.

Basically, all speakers do that. And a subwoofer only does it at one note, other speakers, since they play way more notes, they do it at several spots, where it's louder than the rest.

The objective of equalizing is to narrow those down. As in, find the spots it's loudest at, and on the equalizer, turn that down. A lot of people turn up lower spots - what you actually should do is turn down louder spots in the response curve (basically, a graph of where the speakers are loudest at). Otherwise, it does the same thing a bass boost does, and can clip the signal to the speakers.

Now, since you are only turning down parts of it, wherever the max is set at, it won't make a difference. You are right in a few ways - if you are using the equalizer and turning it up at spots to make it louder, then if you have the gains set already, it'll screw with that, because it'll be louder than it should go. But, if you have the gains set, and you only cut back the signal in spots, you won't go over the maximum amp or speaker capabilities.

Hopefully that helps a bit.

The theory makes sense - but in reality, it's based on using the equalizers improperly, which is an extremely common mistake.

 

[jdawg 5,000+ posts]

there is alot of nisinformation in this thread lol. Let me throw this out too. You could have an amp over rated to do 1000w and really does 700w, set the gain to 1000w should make it put out a clipped to hell signal. You could have an amp rated 1000w but really do 1500w, set it to 1000w and you will never see that 1500w, so that would make under reated amps pretty useless going by the dmm method. There really are too many variables. I will tell most people who are noobs to just use a dmm. I usaully start with a dmm and I may end up bumping it up a lil. I have never blown subs up. The only real way to do it is with an oscilloscope. Really if you have amps or subs that cant handle a little clip here and there then they are shit and you need to start over anyway

 

[TheeyaN 10+ year member]

YES! I am pretty sure i understand u!

Only one thing bothering me.

In my EQ settings,there are dumn *** setting like SUPER BASS,and POWERFULL which are pretty idiotic,but there are also stock EQ settings like natural,and vocal..

In vocal for example the lower frequencies are way below the scale,but the higher frequecies are over the scale. They are in the plus

Also for natural.. Some notes are over the top..

How important is all that? I mean if u increase the higher tones on level or two,can that make the amps clip (speaker amp),or it doesnt really make much diffrence having in mind they are a bit higher frequencies?

 

[TheeyaN 10+ year member]

there is alot of nisinformation in this thread lol. Let me throw this out too. You could have an amp over rated to do 1000w and really does 700w, set the gain to 1000w should make it put out a clipped to hell signal. You could have an amp rated 1000w but really do 1500w, set it to 1000w and you will never see that 1500w, so that would make under reated amps pretty useless going by the dmm method. There really are too many variables. I will tell most people who are noobs to just use a dmm. I usaully start with a dmm and I may end up bumping it up a lil. I have never blown subs up. The only real way to do it is with an oscilloscope. Really if you have amps or subs that cant handle a little clip here and there then they are shit and you need to start over anyway

Point well taken.. As for my sub its the best MB Quart has ever made.. PWE 352,so i guess its not that useless =) As for the sub amp,again the reference line of MB Quart. 800wrms @4 ohms,and the amp has that certificate that guaranties that it has AT LEAST that amount of power,which means it has MORE,how much more i dont know.

Plus it has cliping lamps,but i dont really know does the amp automaticly reduce gain-signal when it starts to clip,or does it just alert (not much use of that when its in the trunk)

I know that u cant really pin point the clip noise with ears for the sub-50hz tone,so if u dont have osciloscope dmm is your best choice (unsless u have milions setups in your ears-which i dont! this is my first big one ^^ )

My bigger concern are the components.. Alpine SPR 17S @ Alpine PDX 2.150 and setting the gains for them,but i think i'll manage..

They can take a second or two of clipping if i chose to go by ears..

As for the osciloscopes-we dont have that here in Serbia.. I mean somebody probably does,but its extremly rare.. Hi-Fi is milion light years away from the stage u people have in the States! Milion LIGHT years!

 

[Plutoman 10+ year member]

YES! I am pretty sure i understand u!
Only one thing bothering me.

In my EQ settings,there are dumn *** setting like SUPER BASS,and POWERFULL which are pretty idiotic,but there are also stock EQ settings like natural,and vocal..

In vocal for example the lower frequencies are way below the scale,but the higher frequecies are over the scale. They are in the plus

Also for natural.. Some notes are over the top..

How important is all that? I mean if u increase the higher tones on level or two,can that make the amps clip (speaker amp),or it doesnt really make much diffrence having in mind they are a bit higher frequencies?

If you have it on those settings, on the max volume you had the gains set to, yes, it will likely clip the signal.

If you leave it a few notches lower than the volume the gains were set at, then you won't have any problems with only a couple levels of difference.

 

[TheeyaN 10+ year member]

OK,so we pretty muched cleared this matter out.

Next questions is about the settings like BBE and ASL sensor

BBE goes -4 to +4

ASL Sensor has low,mid low,mid,mid high,high

How may this two options affect the signal? Does anybody know?

 

[TheeyaN 10+ year member]

bump

 

[jdawg 5,000+ posts]

bbe is gay, makes music sound like ***

 

[nauc 10+ year member]

use your ears

i have my gains all the way up and tweak my eq all the way up, if need be, but i listen carefully when i turn up my deck. when it starts to clip, i turn it down

 

[KOL 10+ year member]

Boosting a signal pushes it more towards clipping, it's not YOUR theory, its common knowledge //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[Plutoman 10+ year member]

Boosting a signal pushes it more towards clipping, it's not YOUR theory, its common knowledge //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

Not exactly what he's meaning :/

He's thinking that setting an equalizer and both boosting and cutting at points is the proper way to set an EQ. And as such, if this was correct, setting it after the gains is inappropriate. That's his theory there - nothing to actually do with the boosted signals themselves.

However, it's incorrect based on that boosting a signal in the EQ for any means is not good.

Also, nauc, you can't always hear clipping. You can hear distortion, but frequently you have some sort of clipping before you can actually hear it. Especially in lower frequencies.

 

[TheeyaN 10+ year member]

Yeap! Plutoman understands me //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

And i understood all that he said to me,and i am using this opportunity to say THANK YOU once again for your help.

Still there is the matter of BBE,ASL,BMX,AUTO EQ & TA..

Somebody mentioned that bbe sounds like ***,but people have diffrent tastes,i dont want to listen do big ear bleading noise,i want to listen music. To hear every detail just like i am on a live concert ^^

So i will be the judge of how it sounds,but what i want to know is does it change the signal? Like the EQ boosting?

If i turn BBE on,did i change the signal? Will it clip sooner or no? Also if i increase or decrease the BBE options,are there any changes?

This is the definition of BBE: Using BBE sound

With BBE, playback very close to the original

sound can be obtained by correction with a

combination of phase compensation and

high-range boost for the delay of the high-frequency

components and the amplitude deviation

occurring during playback. This function

makes it possible to reproduce the dynamic

sound field as if you are listening to a live performance.

With BBE sound processing technology, you

can adjust the level of BBE.

Also what about the BMX?

Using BMX and compression

Using the BMX and COMP (compression)

functions let you adjust the sound playback

quality of this unit. Each of the functions has a

two-step adjustment. BMX controls sound reverberations

to give playback a fuller sound.

Listen to each of the effects as you select

through them and use the one that best enhances

the playback of the track or CD that

you are listening to. The COMP function balances

the output of louder and softer sounds

at higher volumes.

ASL will probably be off cause i dont need that..

 

[Plutoman 10+ year member]

I didn't know what those were, so I was unable to comment.

However, on the BBE, what stands out to me is the high range boost. In addition, phase compensation is worthless without a properly tuned system. I would avoid using this. Imitating the live concert, it doesn't work quite like that. You need a complete properly tuned system, time aligned, etc. It won't sound nearly as good, I'd bet money on it.

BMX looks like it adds a slight reverb effect. Which would be completely alright - whether it sounds good to you is up to you. The compression, I might worry about a tad. As it balances louder and softer sounds, it means both cutting and boosting. However, it's unlikely it will majorly boost softer sounds, and unlikely it'll take them past the point. Basically, up to you whether you like it on or not. I personally prefer to listen to my music how it was recorded, without other effects.

Also, no problem //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Enjoy helping.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

your gain doesn't have anything to do with your equalizer settings, mang. Just set it with the tutorial we have on here, and leave it alone.

False.