Class A amp?

[n2audio 5,000+ posts]

By topology, you mean? Mathematical difference? Is this relevant? Perhaps I am misunderstanding what you mean, Squeak. Are you implying that one amplifier does not have tonal differences from another? //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

In this discussion, topology just refers to the class of the amp. A, A/B, D, BD, X, T etc.

When comparing amps that are level matched to produce the same power...

Yes, that's what he's saying. This is an age old debate.

It goes something like this...

Amplifiers don't "reproduce" sound. They take a voltage, they amplify it, they deliver it to speakers. Speakers reproduce sound.

The technically illiterate, and those otherwise unwilling to accept the validity of some easily understood measurements want to believe the sound from a $500 "high end" 100x2 amp will without a doubt have OBVIOUS sound quality advantages over the run-of-the-mill $100 100x2 amp.

Carefully controlled double blind listening tests have proven, repeatedly beyond a reasonable doubt that those differences just aren't there. This has been done in the car audio segment as well as home.

From what I understand class A's DO color the output a little bit due primarily to a low damping factor. It has been suggested that such coloration can be duplicated simply by adding a small resistor to the spkr outputs on a standard a/b amp.

The debate's been had 1000 times - a lot of the time by engineers and industry professionals with WAY more comprehension of the subject than I (and probably 99% of this forum) will ever have.

The engineer types will always stand on the science and the golden ears will never accept the science.

 

[denim 5,000+ posts]

I recently did some research, and with the modern advances in A/B amps, as mentioned before, the sound difference will probably go unnoticed in an automotive environment. And the lower efficiency is detrimental in automotive also.

 

[Hoot 10+ year member]

If you dont know what topology means you shouldnt be in this discussion //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/fyi.gif.9f1f679348da7204ce960cfc74bca8e0.gif

And you are how old? My first post in months after hangin' at ECA and you're my welcome party.

Class A topology, A/B, D... whatever. Seeking some elaboration and maturity out there....

 

[Hoot 10+ year member]

Ok, thanks to the posts that follow - I am well aware of the "age-old" debate. But, the same debate is said to exist with "digital" CD players, as well, and such a debate does not rage anymore with respect to that piece of electronics - the differences are obvious.

Are you saying simply, Squeak, the topology (as defined above) doesn't impact performance, overall construction does? When construction and parts are equal then, theoretically, so is performance/sound reproduction?

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

From what I understand class A's DO color the output a little bit due primarily to a low damping factor. It has been suggested that such coloration can be duplicated simply by adding a small resistor to the spkr outputs on a standard a/b amp.

I believe you are confusing class A with tube amplifiers.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

Are you saying simply, Squeak, the topology (as defined above) doesn't impact performance,

The "class" of an amplifier in and of itself is not going to cause two amplifiers to be audibly distinguishable.

overall construction does?

No, I would contend that "construction" does not affect the "sound" of an amplifier either, unless the construction deficiency is such that it audibly affects the gain, frequency response, power, noise or distortion of the amplifier.

When construction and parts are equal then, theoretically, so is performance/sound reproduction?

Regardless of parts, construction, class, tolerances, etc, two amplifiers are not going to be audibly distinguishable unless there is an audible difference in the gain, frequency response, power, noise or distortion of the amplifier.

 

[Hoot 10+ year member]

Regardless of parts, construction, class, tolerances, etc, two amplifiers are not going to be audibly distinguishable unless there is an audible difference in the gain, frequency response, power, noise or distortion of the amplifier.

And yet you'll have folks even claim a swap of amps raised their soundstage and provided never-before-heard sparkle - thoughts?

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

And you are how old? My first post in months after hangin' at ECA and you're my welcome party.
Class A topology, A/B, D... whatever. Seeking some elaboration and maturity out there....

I am plenty old. I didnt call you names, attack you or show any kind of immaturity. They better question is why take offense? It was a simple statement of fact if you were unsure of topology you should do some research.

Its just the internet dude.

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

And yet you'll have folks even claim a swap of amps raised their soundstage and provided never-before-heard sparkle - thoughts?

People will always make claims. And if you can measure differences in the areas squeak mentioned than yes of course they will sound different.

The debate lies in if you can hear differences in things you cant measure.

I like many people believe that is false.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

And yet you'll have folks even claim a swap of amps raised their soundstage and provided never-before-heard sparkle - thoughts?

My thoughts are that those "comparisons" are always done in situations where variables are not properly isolated, making the "results" entirely meaningless.

People claim marking on their CD with a green marker created a highly noticeable, night-and-day difference in their soundstage's depth and clarity. People claim a lot of highly unbelievable, ridiculous nonsense and back it with superstition and pixie dust rather than any actual scientific, physical evidence.

If an amplifier did raise their soundstage and provided never-before-heard sparkle.....why ? What is the actual reason for this change ? Was it an issue with frequency response, perhaps ? Or a difference in power levels ? Many would simply attribute it to some ridiculous phenomena without actually isolating variables and investigating the reason.

 

[helotaxi 5,000+ posts]

Many would simply attribute it to some ridiculous phenomena

Specifically the number of digits left of the decimal in the price or the name on the heatsink.

 

[2critical 10+ year member]

I guess I will find out what I think. I'm gonna swap them out before Spring Break Nats. and if nothing else I can BS a few more points huh?

 

[Hoot 10+ year member]

I am plenty old. I didnt call you names, attack you or show any kind of immaturity. They better question is why take offense? It was a simple statement of fact if you were unsure of topology you should do some research.
Its just the internet dude.

Perhaps the better question is why not simply offer some assistance instead of arrogance? You might consider that none of the mods would have made such a statement, and this could provide a nice guide for future comment. Peace....

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

Perhaps the better question is why not simply offer some assistance instead of arrogance? You might consider that none of the mods would have made such a statement, and this could provide a nice guide for future comment. Peace....

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/laugh.gif.48439b2acf2cfca21620f01e7f77d1e4.gif:laugh:

you definitely havent been on this forum much.

 

[mokedaddy 5,000+ posts]

If you are offended by my comments than you will not last long on this board.