Can subs get unlouder if u turn too high?

[MikeofTulsa Moderator]

im just curious...has everyone realized that they have been arguing on the same side yet?? one person in more complex detail and the other in more simplistic terms....heh...

 

[Phatillusion 5,000+ posts]

im just curious...has everyone realized that they have been arguing on the same side yet?? one person in more complex detail and the other in more simplistic terms....heh...

The one on the other side still says that I am wrong. Even though they state the same thing, just going into more detail. If it makes them happy, then that's fine with me.

 

[jellydime 10+ year member]

There seems to be a lot of threads on this forum regarding these types of issues (power, distortion, blown subs) and all of them seem to be saying the same things. If you really read into them, they all seem to include arguing of members that are basically on the same side of the issue...One has a way of explaining it and the other has a different way of explaining it, how it is explained seems to be the actual argument here...D@mn, this is beginning to look like a political debate!!!! both sides basically agreeing but also trying to prove the other is wrong, I thought of all things, car audio would have minimal political tendencies!!! Oh well, at least some of these posts can help some people, as they ARE packed with a lot of useful info.

Now all we gotta decide is who's gonna be the Democrats and whose the Republicans!

Keep it loud!

JELLYDIME

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

reason i argued is the fact that unless you know the whole thing it makes a person wonder to the point of not making sense unless they know what is going on FULLY and/or they think its ok to beat their woofers to death

 

[Phatillusion 5,000+ posts]

One has a way of explaining it and the other has a different way of explaining it, how it is explained seems to be the actual argument here...D@mn, this is beginning to look like a political debate!!!! both sides basically agreeing but also trying to prove the other is wrong

Hey I never said the other side was wrong, the other side said I was wrong. I was only trying to make my point, just wanted some in depth answer as to what he was saying.

 

[jellydime 10+ year member]

I know you never said the other side was wrong, and the other side DEFINITELY came out saying you were...I guess that makes them the Republicans lol

Well now we can all rest easily knowing that both sides are right in their own way. See, we may have even solved this without Zane's words of wisdom!!! Although I wouldn't mind seein a post from him, I'm sure he can explain it far better than any of us and would clear up both sides so that everyone can understand it on the same level...

Keep it loud!

JELLYDIME

 

[zane 10+ year member]

My apologies for not posting earlier, I have been rather occupied this past week.

Judging from what has been stated allready, some may not like what I have to say. So be it. jlaine is correct.

Several times this debate has came up across numerous message boards, and it allways seems to be drudged into the same similar arguement.

I believe that there is little to be elaborated on further, as the issue is pretty black and white. It also has been explained quite well.

Reference wise- I have never suggested that the tech site I reference on my own site;

http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/caraudio.htm is my own. I placed a link to this information on my site as I believe it to be one of the most comprehensive and informative sources of Car Audio Information available. That site is owned and maintained by Perry Babin, as allready mentioned.

Now that that is cleared up......

everyone kiss, make up, have a cold one, and smile! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

take it easy,

-zane

 

[Phatillusion 5,000+ posts]

Zane, I don't doubt your answer, but wouldn't both of us be right? JLaine just explained in more detail. The reason I ask this is simply because if the user was not abusing the volume or gain control, their amp would not be clipping, there for if the amp is not clipping, these larger amounts of power would not be sent to the sub. Based on that, you could also say that the user blew the subs. So here is what I believe to be the break down in order. 1. Excessive amounts of power kill the sub (heat, square waves, from the DC voltage) also the woofer does move as much, therefore heat does not dissipate as quickly. 2. Clipping is what causes the amplifier to send DC voltage, square waves, etc. 3. User-toying with the volume control, gains improperly set, or simply trying to get more out of the amp, than it can produce. So in scientific terms, JLaine is the more correct, but in simplistic terms, 2&3 are also correct. I do have to say though, even though I gave JLaine a little bit of a hard time, I did learn some things I didn't know.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

I WOULDNT WORRY ABOUT IT PHAT..... TO ME IT WAS SORTA STUPID...JUST REMEMBER THE SPEAKER CONE WILL DO WHAT THE WAVE DOES...IF IT HANGS IT WONT MOVE NORMAL...A CLIP IS DISTORTION OF THE WORST KIND AND TO ME IT ISNT "POWER" ITS CALLED GARBAGE BECAUSE LETS FACE IT..YOU DONT WANNA DO IT NOW WOULD WE?(and if you wanna call it power it is of the totally unwanted varity)//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/nono.gif.eca61d170185779e0921b0faa9704973.gif HAS NO REAL BEARING OF "NORMAL" PERFORMANCE BECAUSE ALSO THE MORE EXPERIENCED YOU ARE YOU KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR...ON ANOTHER NOTE...WHAT ABOUT PORTED BOXXES? EHEHE

 

[Phatillusion 5,000+ posts]

But, you also have to look at the fact that most systems have some sort of clipping/distortion. Some aren't audible at all, and some sound like a train wreck. The train wreck example is the one where the subs are getting that DC voltage, square waves, aka too much power. So I can see their point, the excess power created by clipping/distortion does not always lead to the subs destruction.

 

[boaredtodeath]

Hell he thinks he knows alot......Sometimclipping is a form of distortion anyway and it can blow speakers by producing heat be it theoretical or actual if it doesnt say it on the box noone understands, how many owners manuals explain this? where i believe the confusion lies is in the understanding of what was never said. (until now)...nor explained "" it is true but i wouldnt go recomending people to be volume masters ehehe reasons behind this is variables in boxes ,speaker.......ect ect.....reasons this doesnt get out is because people who sell it should be trained in it by the manufacturer (most dont get it from what i see nor understand it if they do) its the manufactures way of controlling who sells what where and why, but the net is so new many people sell this stuff have no clue....except the few ... just be glad you have people that will go to the extremes to explain (i won't 'cause im lazy and if you really wanna know you should learn the whole concept not just parts) but i'll tell you were to look lol another reason why there be so much chaos is there is no real standardization in specs from volfenhag to jl there be a difference in how they come up with their numbers all for marketing........what jl said about heat is true (at first i thought he was saying the opp of what he was until i re read it but its early lol) i know a few amps that add the heat index of the amps heat sink to the output power of the amp to achieve 1000 watts of power lololol aka the 50 dollar 1000 watt amp.

__________________

es i think he is full of it

 

[jlaine 10+ year member]

Originally posted by Phatillusion But, you also have to look at the fact that most systems have some sort of clipping/distortion. Some aren't audible at all, and some sound like a train wreck. The train wreck example is the one where the subs are getting that DC voltage, square waves, aka too much power. So I can see their point, the excess power created by clipping/distortion does not always lead to the subs destruction.

Well... here is the major thing... ALL systems have distortion. Speakers are the major problem. If you find a system with a complete average of 3% distortion from the source unit to the tested output, you are doing **** good.

Clipping, 99% of systems have, even though we don't know it. It's been numerically beaten (that horse is pretty dead, although I don't know if I fully agree with it) that it will take roughly 10 times your actual output requirements for dynamic headroom to not have an amplifier clip on you duing musical peaks. (so your 100x2 front amp? Run it at 10x2 or forget it- cause there will be clipping)

Just for reiteration: Square waves have no relative correlation to DC and cannot be called DC voltage, I believe I went further into this a few posts ago... can't quite recall...

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

Originally posted by boaredtodeath Hell he thinks he knows alot......Sometimclipping es i think he is full of it

well hay dawgies! what do you know? (blacktoothed grin)//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/rolleyes.gif.c1fef805e9d1464d377451cd5bc18bfb.gif

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

i'll get my book i have jlaine you are right about it but even some books call it "dc" lol its wrong but they called it that..

 

[Phatillusion 5,000+ posts]

: Square waves have no relative correlation to DC and cannot be called DC voltage

The train wreck example is the one where the subs are getting that DC voltage, square waves, aka too much power.

Was simply stating what happens when your amp is clipping, and saying that it all revolves around power. Never called it DC for the record.