theCybe
5,000+ posts
sector three
It occured to me that Peel 'n Seal, which I paid $12.50 for a 6" x 25' roll;
Still equates to about a dollar a square foot.
Just for reference. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Still equates to about a dollar a square foot.
Just for reference. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
- Thread Starter
- #3
what's peel 'n seal?
- Thread Starter
- #4
can anyone help me here?
theCybe
5,000+ posts
sector three
Peel 'n Seal is cheapo deadener from Home Depot / Lowes - basically the same stuff (although plenty of people will argue otherwise)
I was just pointing out that while a lot of people will say PNS is the cheapest, it's probably not, at a buck a foot. It is convenient to just go pick up though, if you're impatient //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
I was just pointing out that while a lot of people will say PNS is the cheapest, it's probably not, at a buck a foot. It is convenient to just go pick up though, if you're impatient //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
The reson why people will argue it is not a equal in sound deadening is for 2 reason it dosen't have a reflective shielding so offers no heat resistance and is a ashfault based product and can posibly let off harmfull gasses when it heats up can posibly smell like ashfault. My self I prefure secondskinaudio.com Anthony is a great guy always willing to help and if you tell him some place you find a better deal than his products and tell him the name of the product he will. 1 match the price or 2 explain why it is a inferior product to his.
BCONNELLY
10+ year member
SQ Budda
Wanting to do the same with my truck, I'm sure I'll need at lest 100 sq ft, but, would like to see a little more feed back from you guys...
-- how about, B quite.. it's like $1 a square foot????
-- how about, B quite.. it's like $1 a square foot????
Why is heat resistance an issue? The doors/trunk have done fine without some sort of barier in the past...I don't get it?
Who here is using this stuff?
I was about to buy Dynamat on Ebay. After searching all the ads and adding shipping and original cost to get past the BS, the cheapst thing I found is $57 for 12 square feet.
If I can get 12 square feet for about $12...And it really is the same stuff..Umm...???
Anthony Collova
10+ year member
CarAudio.com Elite
here is the cliff note version
2 types of constraint layer dampers ( sticky with foil)
1. Butyl (dynamat extreme, Raamat, Stinger road kill, Second Skin)
2. Bituminous (asphalt- edead, old rammat, b-quiet- peel and sea)
Industry secret : and mat that comes in a rolls is designed for a roof. A lot are rebadged as sound deadening and sold to customers on the internet, and some in the real world) some work very well, any that are butyl will do fine. asphalt ones can melt.
Heat tolerance: asphalt has a low heat tolerance, and can melt. some time it does, sometimes it does not. This is evident by the countless thread on this and other forums with users that had it melt in their cars.
Asphalt will not always melt. Some times the batch can be good and consistent, other times the batch can be bad and inconsistent. an inconsistent batch will have a greater chance of melting. The problem with asphalt is not that it can melt, but that you never know if you are going to get a good batch or not. Since asphalt mats are designed to go on top of a home roof, the manufactures don’t care about the constancy of it for auto applications. The asphalt mats meet the quality control for their specific purpose and nothing else.. The heat tolerance can never exceed 235 degrees without melting. Plus they are stinky and can be toxic.
This is why mats that are designed for cars will be made of butyl (sometimes pvc blend or acrylic but mostly butyl in some form) Butyl has a much higher heat tolerance typical of automotive conditions and are non toxic with no odor.. Heat ratings start at 280 and ending around 600. the problem with 600 degree mats is that they are not very tacky. the lower the heat tolerance the stickier it feels, however as long as a mat has a heat tolerance which will not melt in a car, and does not slide off due to lack of bond strength (tackiness) it will work jsut as well.
This is a function of balance. high heat tolerance with good bond strength equals better performance at high temperatures.
in general a hot asphalt mat will feel more sticky than a butyl mat at most any temperature and will have a better bond strength within that temperature range. This is why you hear people say. "I heated my peel and seal up and it was stickier than sh!t, there is no way that stuff is coming off.. its all in the install!"
Partly true. Heating asphalt up will make is sticky but how sticky a product is has nothing to do with how well it will adhere if it is temperature depending.
this is what makes butyl mats more stable. They will be just as consistent in terms of adhesion at any temperature. Heating them up can make them more pliable and WILL make them stick better, but this will have little to do with performance.
Because asphalt mats are heat dependant heating them up upon install is a good idea, but will only help it adhere under the proper temperatures, if the temperature exceeds the rating of that batch, it can melt and slide off, no matter how much heat and pressure you use when applying it. When it comes to asphalt mats it is al in the install, but as history has shown, even the best install will fail if the batch is a bad one.
One problem is that ignorance is bliss. Consumers see a black tar on a silver foil and say it looks the same as Dynamat extreme so it must be the same. They then go around preaching how all the products are the same, and tell people that they never had a problem because they heated their mat up first. I have seen countless people bash other people because of a failed product saying that it could not have been the product, and had to be the result of a lousy install.
I have also seen some (not all) of those people eat their words months later when the summer rolled around and their stuff melted.
Everyone, please hear this!!!
Asphalt mats are good and work. Some are great and will work fine, as long as you get a good batch, which lots of people do. With these mats comes a risk of failure though.. This is the chance you take but you save some money while doing it.
hope that all make sense
ANT
2 types of constraint layer dampers ( sticky with foil)
1. Butyl (dynamat extreme, Raamat, Stinger road kill, Second Skin)
2. Bituminous (asphalt- edead, old rammat, b-quiet- peel and sea)
Industry secret : and mat that comes in a rolls is designed for a roof. A lot are rebadged as sound deadening and sold to customers on the internet, and some in the real world) some work very well, any that are butyl will do fine. asphalt ones can melt.
Heat tolerance: asphalt has a low heat tolerance, and can melt. some time it does, sometimes it does not. This is evident by the countless thread on this and other forums with users that had it melt in their cars.
Asphalt will not always melt. Some times the batch can be good and consistent, other times the batch can be bad and inconsistent. an inconsistent batch will have a greater chance of melting. The problem with asphalt is not that it can melt, but that you never know if you are going to get a good batch or not. Since asphalt mats are designed to go on top of a home roof, the manufactures don’t care about the constancy of it for auto applications. The asphalt mats meet the quality control for their specific purpose and nothing else.. The heat tolerance can never exceed 235 degrees without melting. Plus they are stinky and can be toxic.
This is why mats that are designed for cars will be made of butyl (sometimes pvc blend or acrylic but mostly butyl in some form) Butyl has a much higher heat tolerance typical of automotive conditions and are non toxic with no odor.. Heat ratings start at 280 and ending around 600. the problem with 600 degree mats is that they are not very tacky. the lower the heat tolerance the stickier it feels, however as long as a mat has a heat tolerance which will not melt in a car, and does not slide off due to lack of bond strength (tackiness) it will work jsut as well.
This is a function of balance. high heat tolerance with good bond strength equals better performance at high temperatures.
in general a hot asphalt mat will feel more sticky than a butyl mat at most any temperature and will have a better bond strength within that temperature range. This is why you hear people say. "I heated my peel and seal up and it was stickier than sh!t, there is no way that stuff is coming off.. its all in the install!"
Partly true. Heating asphalt up will make is sticky but how sticky a product is has nothing to do with how well it will adhere if it is temperature depending.
this is what makes butyl mats more stable. They will be just as consistent in terms of adhesion at any temperature. Heating them up can make them more pliable and WILL make them stick better, but this will have little to do with performance.
Because asphalt mats are heat dependant heating them up upon install is a good idea, but will only help it adhere under the proper temperatures, if the temperature exceeds the rating of that batch, it can melt and slide off, no matter how much heat and pressure you use when applying it. When it comes to asphalt mats it is al in the install, but as history has shown, even the best install will fail if the batch is a bad one.
One problem is that ignorance is bliss. Consumers see a black tar on a silver foil and say it looks the same as Dynamat extreme so it must be the same. They then go around preaching how all the products are the same, and tell people that they never had a problem because they heated their mat up first. I have seen countless people bash other people because of a failed product saying that it could not have been the product, and had to be the result of a lousy install.
I have also seen some (not all) of those people eat their words months later when the summer rolled around and their stuff melted.
Everyone, please hear this!!!
Asphalt mats are good and work. Some are great and will work fine, as long as you get a good batch, which lots of people do. With these mats comes a risk of failure though.. This is the chance you take but you save some money while doing it.
hope that all make sense
ANT
Thanks for the insight I now know what to stay away from.
What is the original purpose of Peel 'n Seal?
I wasn't able to find it at Lowes or Home Depot...What's it used for? Where do I look?
Is it worth the extra cost to get Dynamat over, say, Damplifier? Is that much better?
I wasn't able to find it at Lowes or Home Depot...What's it used for? Where do I look?
Is it worth the extra cost to get Dynamat over, say, Damplifier? Is that much better?
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