Really? Were you able to measure it? If so, can you post the graphs? I'd be most interested in the 2nd and 3rd harmonics of that metal cone. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Is that reallly what the 12's are going for from SI?!?!
- Thread Starter
- #23
Electrodynamic
10+ year member
Knows nothing
Yep. The new Mag's will be available for that amount once they arrive.
But back on topic - how does a dual 2 Ohm driver not give you the "hit" you desire? As mrorgowski said, impedance has nothing to do with the 'hit' with all else being equal. Two Mag's in a truck will be VERY loud (even off of 400 watts each, let alone 700-1000 watts). With all the technology packed into the Mag and BM's, they will provide a solid solution for any small box application. Not to mention that they'll do with with about 2/3 the weight and space of the competition.
So far I've gathered that you have:
A truck
Not a lot of room
...and that's about it.
How much power are you looking to run? Do you know how much power you should be running? Are you going to have a stock alternator and single battery?
For amplifiers I suggest the Sundown SAZ-1500D also. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif
Electrodynamic
10+ year member
Knows nothing
- Thread Starter
- #26
Well i thought 2 ohms didnt have enough resistance so they arent gonna hit as hard as the same sub with 4 ohms. Assuming I run enough power to it. Im gonna be running a stock battery and alternator. I dont wanna mess around with any of that.
A rough rule for Alternator current draw is about 70 amps for every 1000 watts of power. So, if you know what your alternator is rated at, this can help you to determine your system limits.
From there, you can begin looking at how much area within your vehicle you are willing to sacrifice for your system. Oh, and don't look at all of the 'brand/model X' posts everyone likes to throw out all the time - at least not yet. Determine what it is you want vs. what it is you can get first. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
From there, you can begin looking at how much area within your vehicle you are willing to sacrifice for your system. Oh, and don't look at all of the 'brand/model X' posts everyone likes to throw out all the time - at least not yet. Determine what it is you want vs. what it is you can get first. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
- Thread Starter
- #28
OK under the left side of my backseat I have 1 cu. ft. Under the Right side I have 1 cu.ft. Under the middle I have .66 cu.ft. This all adds up to 2.66 cu.ft. and I still need to fit the amp under the seat as well. Im running a stock alternator at 90 amps.
bigbangtheory
5,000+ posts
CarAudio.com Veteran
I also suggest the 2 mags off the SAZ 1500d. Would be pure sex and perfect for your truck being you don't have a lot of room to work with.
I have a sedan, but have to make room for the baby stuff, so I currently have a 1.5cft sealed box and once I order my new Mag, will be 1.2cft sealed. Nothing wrong with going smaller. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
- Thread Starter
- #30
well I have gotten a lot of different replies about what subs to use so that is going to be the main difficulty in choosing. Also what makes a good amp, watts are watts arent they? How do u get "better" watts?
Ok, so you got your workable area down and you know you can go with ~1kw of power. I also assume you have a budget in mind as well. It should include wiring, amp, drivers, fusing, misc. parts like connectors, etc.
There seems to be just as much hype surrounding amps and amp power as there is sub specs. Other folks can certainly chime in here, but there's power output, and then there is 'if lightning strikes at the same time Jupiter's moons are in alignment' type of power. From what I understand, the decent quality units will come with a birthsheet telling you the *real* output power the amp can produce. At least with that you know what you are dealing with.
Many good quality amps these days offer stable output to low impedance loads. So based on your limits set earlier (~1 cube per side and 1000 watts) you know you can install subs capable of handling at least 500 RMS watts each (not peak, not max, but root-mean-square).
With all that out of the way, you can now do some shopping //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Personally, I would start with choosing the driver, then look for a decent amp to power it. There's a ****-ton of subs out there you can chose from in the 400-600 watt power handling range. Oh, and if you find a sub you like that handles 1000 or 1500 watts, buy it. There is nothing saying that you *have* to match amplifier output power with loudspeaker handling capability.
Set your goals based on your music preference. Do you want something that produces a nice tonal balance between the lows and mid-bass, or are you after the gut wrenching boom that you hear from guys in ricers as they zoom by you? This will help you determine which driver will be best suited to your application.
There are a small number of company names that folks tend to throw out in this forum. They are all worth checking out as they all offer much more than what you would find in the big box stores.
Good luck to you! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Mark
EDIT: If you are interested in learning more about what it is you are doing, here's a good site that shows you the basics of car audio electronics:
http://www.bcae1.com
There seems to be just as much hype surrounding amps and amp power as there is sub specs. Other folks can certainly chime in here, but there's power output, and then there is 'if lightning strikes at the same time Jupiter's moons are in alignment' type of power. From what I understand, the decent quality units will come with a birthsheet telling you the *real* output power the amp can produce. At least with that you know what you are dealing with.
Many good quality amps these days offer stable output to low impedance loads. So based on your limits set earlier (~1 cube per side and 1000 watts) you know you can install subs capable of handling at least 500 RMS watts each (not peak, not max, but root-mean-square).
With all that out of the way, you can now do some shopping //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Personally, I would start with choosing the driver, then look for a decent amp to power it. There's a ****-ton of subs out there you can chose from in the 400-600 watt power handling range. Oh, and if you find a sub you like that handles 1000 or 1500 watts, buy it. There is nothing saying that you *have* to match amplifier output power with loudspeaker handling capability.
Set your goals based on your music preference. Do you want something that produces a nice tonal balance between the lows and mid-bass, or are you after the gut wrenching boom that you hear from guys in ricers as they zoom by you? This will help you determine which driver will be best suited to your application.
There are a small number of company names that folks tend to throw out in this forum. They are all worth checking out as they all offer much more than what you would find in the big box stores.
Good luck to you! //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif
Mark
EDIT: If you are interested in learning more about what it is you are doing, here's a good site that shows you the basics of car audio electronics:
http://www.bcae1.com
- Thread Starter
- #32
thnx a lot! appreciate it : )
2 Elemental Designs 13av2s and 2 strapped nine.1s for the amp. Port it and it'll be rediculously loud.
- Thread Starter
- #34
What to get?
2 AQ HDC3 12 inch
2 Si mag 12 inch
2 jl 12w3's
2 kicker l7's 12 inch
2 reaudio se 12inch
I was thinking about the fi btl's but have heard there sq is pretty shitty.
Amp: 1500 watts at 2 ohms., still gotta find one.
2 AQ HDC3 12 inch
2 Si mag 12 inch
2 jl 12w3's
2 kicker l7's 12 inch
2 reaudio se 12inch
I was thinking about the fi btl's but have heard there sq is pretty shitty.
Amp: 1500 watts at 2 ohms., still gotta find one.
req
5,000+ posts
am a mod.
okay man. nobody said anything about final resistance from an amp. this is how it works
speaker is made of a magnet (aka motor), a cone, suspension parts, and an electromagnet.
read this and it might help you a bit - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subwoofer
the only thing you need to worry about is the electromagnet. this is what is most important to the consumer because it is what gives your thermal wattage handeling, and its what gives you your resistance - aka your ohms.
now, its arguable (but thats for a whole nother discussion) that sub bass is something called omnidirectional. this means "all directions". basically its saying that even though a subwoofer is in the corner of a room, or under the seats, or behind you, it is *or should be* extremely hard to localize where the bass is originating. remember, since its omnidirectional - this relates it is a single channel and not stereo - as it a left channel and a right channel. this is why we use mono (single channel) amplifiers for bass. ok. on to the next part.
so you say "2 ohms" - i believe this was in regards to the stereo integrity magnum having a '2 ohm' resistance. now look, since you are getting a single channel amplifier - you need to hook both speakers up to it with one output terminal. well, if you look at the speakers, they have two (a + and a -) terminals each. how do you hook up four terminals to two terminals?
most of the non enlightened car audio people would just shuv the + from both speakers and the - from both speakers into the respective terminals on said amplifier. now, what this person effectivly has done is wire the speakers inline with his amplifier in parallel. as seen here;
now, when knowing what you are doing there is nothing wrong with this, because if you do some reading you will find out that wiring speakers this way will effectively reduce the impedance of the circuit. so the amplifier would see a nominal (total) resistance of 1ohm, which the saz1500d would create more power and each woofer would see 500w rms.
so you are NOT looking for a 1500w @ 2 ohms amplifier, fact is, there are not many of them that will cost less than $300 or more. you are looking for an amplifier that will yield 1500w @ 1 ohm. because you will be linking both speakers together in a circuit with the amplifier reducing the net resistance on the amplifier and creating more current\voltage (ala wattage) through the circuit because off the lowered resistance.
does that explain your dilemma?
i totally stand behind a pair of SI mags with a saz-1500d for a suitable sub stage in a truck. id do it in a heart beat if i had that kind of money and a truck.
speaker is made of a magnet (aka motor), a cone, suspension parts, and an electromagnet.
read this and it might help you a bit - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subwoofer
the only thing you need to worry about is the electromagnet. this is what is most important to the consumer because it is what gives your thermal wattage handeling, and its what gives you your resistance - aka your ohms.
now, its arguable (but thats for a whole nother discussion) that sub bass is something called omnidirectional. this means "all directions". basically its saying that even though a subwoofer is in the corner of a room, or under the seats, or behind you, it is *or should be* extremely hard to localize where the bass is originating. remember, since its omnidirectional - this relates it is a single channel and not stereo - as it a left channel and a right channel. this is why we use mono (single channel) amplifiers for bass. ok. on to the next part.
so you say "2 ohms" - i believe this was in regards to the stereo integrity magnum having a '2 ohm' resistance. now look, since you are getting a single channel amplifier - you need to hook both speakers up to it with one output terminal. well, if you look at the speakers, they have two (a + and a -) terminals each. how do you hook up four terminals to two terminals?
most of the non enlightened car audio people would just shuv the + from both speakers and the - from both speakers into the respective terminals on said amplifier. now, what this person effectivly has done is wire the speakers inline with his amplifier in parallel. as seen here;
now, when knowing what you are doing there is nothing wrong with this, because if you do some reading you will find out that wiring speakers this way will effectively reduce the impedance of the circuit. so the amplifier would see a nominal (total) resistance of 1ohm, which the saz1500d would create more power and each woofer would see 500w rms.
so you are NOT looking for a 1500w @ 2 ohms amplifier, fact is, there are not many of them that will cost less than $300 or more. you are looking for an amplifier that will yield 1500w @ 1 ohm. because you will be linking both speakers together in a circuit with the amplifier reducing the net resistance on the amplifier and creating more current\voltage (ala wattage) through the circuit because off the lowered resistance.
does that explain your dilemma?
i totally stand behind a pair of SI mags with a saz-1500d for a suitable sub stage in a truck. id do it in a heart beat if i had that kind of money and a truck.
- Thread Starter
- #36
had to read tht about 10 times but i see what your saying. Ok im gonna go with si mags. I have just never heard anything about them which is why I am kinda skeptical. But then again I am new to all this and you guys know a hell of a lot more then I do.
And let me get this straight. Hooking up 4 terminals from the subs into 2 terminals from the amp is gonna increase the resistance making it about 750 watts at 2 ohms? Or am I off again? lord help me ha
And let me get this straight. Hooking up 4 terminals from the subs into 2 terminals from the amp is gonna increase the resistance making it about 750 watts at 2 ohms? Or am I off again? lord help me ha
Don't copy me, copycat!
(pKelly)
As req was explaining earlier, subwoofers have a voice coil (basically, imagine a cardboard toilet paper roll wrapped tightly in thing wire). The cylinder is the voice coil; that wavy-looking circle is a different component, called the spider. Don't concern yourself with it.
Now, dependent upon several factors, the voice coil will have a certan impedance; This is the figure you will see refered to like "2 ohm or 4 ohm". Today, most subwoofers will have dual voice coils; meaning, there are two voice coils built into one (even you can't actually see that there are two). So, you will see these advertised as "Dual 2 ohm and Dual 4 ohm." Just an FYI, subwoofers are not limited to just 2 and 4 ohm impedances.
Anyways, in electronics, there are two main wires in which to wire elements (in our case, the elements are the voice coils). These two ways are series and parallel wiring. Through wiring speakers in series or parellel, or a combination of both, you will recieve a final impedance that your amp will "see." This is what is meant when you see an amplifier that will put out 1500 watts at 2 ohms. The amplifier will output 1500 watts when it "sees" 2 ohms.
In order to wire your subwoofers to a specific impedance, there are plenty of guides online you can use too avoid confusion. One of my favorites is:
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/woofer_wizard.asp?
Just input the number of subwoofers, and what their voice coil configuration is (Single 2 ohm voice coil, dual 2 ohm voice coil, etc.) That site will show you how to wire the subwoofers.
Req. just asking... could you just take the +from the left sub in that pic and go to the + on the other one instead of doing a seperate run from the amp for both subs?
.
- Thread Starter
- #40
Oooooooooooooooo gotchya maldecido...........so what if you take speakers whose normal impedance is 2 ohms and wire them so the amp "sees" them as 4?
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