Been a While. New stuff. Box advice.

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Hello,

It's been a while since I was here. Started putting a SQ system in my Blazer, and then the Blazer got hit hard in the rear. Sooo, got a 2004 Grand Cherokee, which is the last year they used a solid front axle in that model.

Recently I ended up with a Planet Audio subwoofer. I chose this because of the specs: 95dB 1w/1m and 500w RMS. I'm running a 400w RMS CV class D amp to replace my 300w RMS A/B that blew, so I figured this sub would be about perfect for the amp.

Well, come to find out the amp is specified as 86dB in the manual. Not happy. Installed anyway. Not appreciably better than the old early-'90s Legacy I had in there. The only thing was that the Legacy was like 250w peak, and I would have blown it before long.

Both were installed in the same cheap, pre-fab sealed box.

I always wanted a punch at around 45Hz, so I dug out an old 2" port I had and took a hole saw to the box.

PA Axis.jpg

Sounded better. I'd like my low end back though. I'm thinking bandpass. I do have midwoofers.

When I was a teenager, I had a CJ5. I'd turned the entire bed into a speaker box. Into this box went four Pyle Drivers (remember; 1990s. Pyles were still decent.) I ran a 400w (IIRC) Legacy Amp into two channels, 8Ω each channel, and tuned to around 35 to 40HZ (don't recall right now.) That thing was loud. Now, I know I don't have the surface area to get as loud as I did with my CJ's system, but how much can I realistically put out with a single 12" sub pushed to 400w RMS? Right now, I can still see out my rearview mirror :D

I'm SQ but don't want to sacrifice any thump I don't have to.

Thoughts on box direction? I'd like to not go much larger than I have to. I know, I ask a lot, and some of it flies in the face of physics. Still, what thoughts do you have?

Thanks!

Josh
 
If you can I would build a new box with the proper specs of the subs and a proper port but I wouldn't expect too much out out of a single 12 on 400 watts in an SUV.

Coming from someone who started doing this in the 90's I can tell you that Pyles were never decent BTW;)
 
If you can I would build a new box with the proper specs of the subs and a proper port but I wouldn't expect too much out out of a single 12 on 400 watts in an SUV.

Coming from someone who started doing this in the 90's I can tell you that Pyles were never decent BTW;)

The were entry level, but they seemed to work. Never had issues. When the Jeep spat the rear axle for the last time, I'd had a plan to replace the Pyles with Crunch. Bet that would have been fun.

I'll be building a box. Just trying to get ideas as to what folks would go with, if a bandpass would maybe do best here..? Thanks!
 
Fwiw... A local guy in town here has a Cj with ported sub up/port down low towards the front seats on along the floor about 1/2 external and it does great.
Top on or off. Hes got 2 15s tho and a little power.
That sub you got im not familiar with. Idk how that particular sub will act in a 4th.
 
The were entry level, but they seemed to work. Never had issues. When the Jeep spat the rear axle for the last time, I'd had a plan to replace the Pyles with Crunch. Bet that would have been fun.

I'll be building a box. Just trying to get ideas as to what folks would go with, if a bandpass would maybe do best here..? Thanks!
I was just kidding
At one point somewhere in the 90's I was running 2 10" Dr Crankenstiens Not the good ones off a shitty little Pioneer amp.
 
remember; 1990s. Pyles were still decent
And made in the USA. Yes, they were on par with the other stuff we were running back then for sure. Up until the RF Power and CV Stroker came out pretty much everything was funky-pup tier, though a friend of mine had a Celestion branded subwoofer that was pretty beast. Definitely not a repurposed PA woofer but a nice big booty subwoofer.

Anyway, space makes bass and if you can give up more cargo area you can and will have more potential to get loud. My Jeeps (97) which is very similar body style sounded best with subs and port firing up. Sub(s) up and port to the side is also very good. Subs/port back didn't do all so hot and subs/port forward was the poorest performers. That all said if you really need to know what's best you will have to test everything, but subs/port forward are virtually never the best option in an SUV.

Planet audio is not a very good brand and has not been since the days they were Zed made amps with tubes in the pre-amp. I would not trust their subs to perform as advertised because I know their amps flat out lie. Not sure what amp you have now, but power is extremely cheap these days so don't be put off by beefier woofers if you have the ability to build a custom box and don't mind giving up some space.

Lastly Q-Logic has custom kick panels for my Jeep and may have for yours. They are extremely simple to install, look factory, and the imaging is excellent. They're spendy but if you use those + the factory front door locations you will have a good soundstage and all the output you could want.
 
Fwiw... A local guy in town here has a Cj with ported sub up/port down low towards the front seats on along the floor about 1/2 external and it does great.
Top on or off. Hes got 2 15s tho and a little power.
That sub you got im not familiar with. Idk how that particular sub will act in a 4th.

I really wish I had a pic of my CJ. You all would love it. This was a few years before digital cameras were widespread. The closest I've found to a pic of that Jeep is part of a front bumper photobombing the gf's (at the time) '89 Buick Regal. Why I took a pic of the Regal, I do not know.
 
And made in the USA. Yes, they were on par with the other stuff we were running back then for sure. Up until the RF Power and CV Stroker came out pretty much everything was funky-pup tier, though a friend of mine had a Celestion branded subwoofer that was pretty beast. Definitely not a repurposed PA woofer but a nice big booty subwoofer.

Anyway, space makes bass and if you can give up more cargo area you can and will have more potential to get loud. My Jeeps (97) which is very similar body style sounded best with subs and port firing up. Sub(s) up and port to the side is also very good. Subs/port back didn't do all so hot and subs/port forward was the poorest performers. That all said if you really need to know what's best you will have to test everything, but subs/port forward are virtually never the best option in an SUV.

Planet audio is not a very good brand and has not been since the days they were Zed made amps with tubes in the pre-amp. I would not trust their subs to perform as advertised because I know their amps flat out lie. Not sure what amp you have now, but power is extremely cheap these days so don't be put off by beefier woofers if you have the ability to build a custom box and don't mind giving up some space.

Lastly Q-Logic has custom kick panels for my Jeep and may have for yours. They are extremely simple to install, look factory, and the imaging is excellent. They're spendy but if you use those + the factory front door locations you will have a good soundstage and all the output you could want.

I'll check into that.

I have 6x9s in the front doors and mid/tweeters in the dash, both stock locations. The 6x9s are PowerBass OE-690D ( https://powerbassusa.com/us/en/products/mobile-audio/OE-690D-6x9-dvc-woofer/ ,) one of the few 6x9 woofers I could find with the specs I wanted. Not sure how they rate with regard to quality, but they seem good. I'd debated putting in 6.5" or even shallow 8" woofers, but decided to try this first. They do sound good.

The mid-tweeters are Sundown SA-2.75FR v2 ( https://sundownaudio.com/lv/sa/speakers/sa-275fr-v2/ ; had wanted the v1 as they seem better, but couldn't find any as they're discontinued. Still, these work very well and spec better than the Memphis I was also looking at.)

Subwoofer is the Planet Audio as mentioned. I thought they were considered a good brand. Subwoofer amp is a Cerwin-Vega CVP800.2d . I've resisted Class D until now, but decided CV should be OK (they're still considered good, right??)

If you had to make a Funky Pup sound good, how would you choose to do it?

Thanks!
 
If you had to make a Funky Pup sound good, how would you choose to do it?

Honestly I suspect they could sound fine in an average sized sealed box, just they'd be limited to <125W. They look like pretty much every sub we used to have to chose from in the old days and most of them could be made to sound good.

I haven't seen any PowerBass in many years around here, last ones I saw seemed to perform as advertised (amps made rated power, subs handled rated power). Planet audio has over-rated what their stuff with do by double for a very long time now which I have a particular hardon against but there was a dude up here who did his whole build with their stuff and it didn't sound bad or anything. So I guess decent quality but I very much oppose companies lying about specs since you never know what to trust.

CV has sold a few good amps over the years but they don't design their own boards or anything so it's really a crap shoot if they picked something decent out of the China catalog to slap their name on.

Full range class D technology has matured to the point where they can hold their own with anything else going (inb4 some blowhard thinks they're going to take Richard Clark's money). Alpine has been making them for nearly 20 years now and while their earliest model was a little noisy they have long since ironed out the kinks. Stephen Mantz got into full range class D about 15 years ago under the Zed brand name which were all excellent and he has designed several boards for premium priced "SQ" companies including Focal, Mosconi, and Phoenix Gold. Several other companies have put R&D into full range class D and we're already at the point where Korean/Chinese cookie cutter clones of older designs are perfectly viable options.

I would absolutely never buy an A/B amplifier for car audio barring maybe a nostalgia piece and that's a short list of stuff that'll likely never come up for sale at a sane price. Going forward full bridge may be the next wave of space/cost savings in car audio. Right now if you're buying a 3000W or larger mono amp I don't see any reason to not buy full bridge (again, barring nostalgia pieces).

Nothing wrong with a 6x9 in general, I would use without hesitation if I had the holes for them in a vehicle. If I'm buying off-the-shelf component sets I'm a big fan of JBL/Infinity lineup, but at the end of the day, if it sounds good, it is good.
 
Sounds good.

Wanna hear a funny story? Once there was this dude named Wabutuckian, and he installed a new amp to replace his 30-year-old Legacy amp that finally failed.

Well, this feller still had a vintage Legacy subwoofer installed, and, though it had a Kevlar cone, it still wasn't the best at power handling when new, let alone being abused on a display for 30 years.

So, Wabatuckian turned his new Class D amp down to the Legacy sub's specs. He promptly forgot he did that.

A couple weeks later, Wabatuckian installed a new sub that more closely matched the advertised 400w RMS of the Class D sub. He wasn't impressed because the 400w didn't sound like 400w.

One day, after Wabatuckian posted on caraudio.com, he got to thinking: Did he turn the amp up after installing the subwoofer? He flat couldn't remember. He only remembered being in a hurry to install the sub between the time he took off from his real job, and the time he had to pick up his kids from school.

So, Wabatuckian checked.

Wabatuckian found a reading of 20v where there should have been a reading of 40v across the speaker terminals, so Wabatuckian increased the gain to 40v.

Wabatuckian then heard closer to what he'd expect of 400w RMS coming from a 12" woofer.

Of course, Wabatuckian, that very day, had ordered another amp that'll do 600w RMS into 4Ω , and so can run the full 500w RMS that the sub is rated for (and, if it blows, it has a one year warranty.)

It looks like Mrs. Wabatuckian is gaining a 400w RMS amp for her car. She's been bugging Wabatuckian to do this for her, and so he will.

<sigh>
 
And made in the USA.

Anyway, space makes bass and if you can give up more cargo area you can and will have more potential to get loud. My Jeeps (97) which is very similar body style sounded best with subs and port firing up. Sub(s) up and port to the side is also very good. Subs/port back didn't do all so hot and subs/port forward was the poorest performers. That all said if you really need to know what's best you will have to test everything, but subs/port forward are virtually never the best option in an SUV.

You know, I have a couple 8" Pyles that were made in USA. Found them at the Salvation Army a while back. The surrounds are gone, but otherwise they're in good shape. Bought them due to nostalgia, and have had a surround kit laying around for a bit.

I might just check the wattage on those, and install them in my wife's car with the CV amp. This would be plenty for her.

As far as Jeeps go, my '04 had a 6ch Infinity system in it. I went ahead and kept the amp. (Come to think of it, it might actually be Class D.)

It sounds really good, even with the high inputs.

It has a crossover. The 6x9s get the bass and the dash speakers get midrange and treble.

Problem is, I can't find the exact crossover point. I measured a 6x9 once with pink noise, and it showed a slope at around 800Hz, if I recall correctly. I'm not sure if that's correct because I used a cellphone. But that seems a little high to me.

Do you know any way, short of finding someone with an oscilloscope, I can find out what that crossover point is? I believe I wrote Infinity once and never got a response.

Thanks!
 
FYI If you want a oscilloscope you can cheap ones on Amazon for 40-50 bucks and they do just fine for car audio. Seen a few people buy this one below and setup amplifiers with them even high end ones with good results. Obviously some chinese crap but it works. It comes in a few different names and colors but they are all the same,lol. For a quick result they do okay.

 
FYI If you want a oscilloscope you can cheap ones on Amazon for 40-50 bucks and they do just fine for car audio. Seen a few people buy this one below and setup amplifiers with them even high end ones with good results. Obviously some chinese crap but it works. It comes in a few different names and colors but they are all the same,lol. For a quick result they do okay.


Thank you.

You know, I was also looking at these digital ones for another purpose: I've recently installed a CB system, which is something else I've not run in 20 years.

I need to peak and tune my new CB, and I don't know anyone with oscilloscopes any longer. I'll look at that one you recommend and see if it can measure what I need it to measure on the CB, and quite possibly there's one in my future.
 
Do you know any way, short of finding someone with an oscilloscope, I can find out what that crossover point is?
No. Even if you used an RTA you would never know if the attenuation is due to some other issue or the actual signal from the amp being attenuated. Not sure how much effort they put into something like that but a good quality home cabinet will often have notch filters built in to correct rough spots in otherwise good performing drivers.

I don't see any reason that those 8" pyles with 100-150W wouldn't make a little bass for you. Be sure you pry up the dustcap and shim up the coil before you attempt to re-foam. Misaligned coil will cause rapid failure and poor sound up til then.

By all accounts those cheap handheld o-scopes are useable within their intended range and should get you by.
 
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