Awareness

[Moble Enclosurs 10+ year member]

This is the same guy that wants us to have 5 of our friends buy a design from him so he can bless us with a free design.He has been here for less than a month but acts like we should all be hanging from his nut sack.

Someone is just a little too full of himself.

If thats how you feel. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Not full of myself at all. I am a business man. And a disabled vet, so I would appreciate a little respect. What I am offering is called a promotional offer. Many businesses do it. And if you have not noticed, I am a supporting vendor.......I have the right.

I apologize for being full of knowledge (chuckle). Blame it on evolution, I guess. Anyhow, Im not upset at what you said. I respect that. You do not know me, but please do not make automatic assumptions of my purpose here. I am always here to help.

I may be new to this forum, but I have been in business since 2008. And have been involved in sound reproduction for over 10 years. Im not a noob. I have been through a real chain of command, this is nothing to me. But I respect its purpose just as you should respect mine..which is to help if possible.

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

so basically your telling me u know how to design a box for every car to be optimal. which im referencing that this guy came to you asking about responses on a particular design of which you so said designed yourself.

hmmm i can say that im 100% sure that you could not design a box that would have a flat response in my car the first time.

i ask questions when i design boxes here and there from other installers like when i have never work on a particular car. but even still i cant stay "hey ive done this in the same car and it will put up xxx.xx number with this certain equipment" as every single car is different.

most designs are trial by error to acheive the best desired result and not one person can argue me on this situation.

you can get butt hurt all u want cuz this guy used this design that you "created" i can make some random design and it might happen to match yours maybe its just coincidence but even if he did just copy the design who cares its not stealing he prolly got the design from another customers box and just copied it which isnt stealing as the first customer already paid for it so u now do not own that design "u sold it"

id be willing to trust quite a few of these guys on here if i needed to as none of them claim to have such high grasp of the knowledge that they say their designs are perfect. they make you a design that they think with work well in which many cases it does. nobody knows everything.

 

[bubbagumper6 5,000+ posts]

you can get butt hurt all u want cuz this guy used this design that you "created" i can make some random design and it might happen to match yours maybe its just coincidence but even if he did just copy the design who cares its not stealing he prolly got the design from another customers box and just copied it which isnt stealing as the first customer already paid for it so u now do not own that design "u sold it"

Selling a single item is not the same as selling the rights to produce the item, you should have learned about copyright laws and whatnot in high school.

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

Selling a single item is not the same as selling the rights to produce the item, you should have learned about copyright laws and whatnot in high school.

this is were u have your legal loop holes though. i can buy a dvd a burn a copy and give it to someone else, but i cannot sell the copy. if you own the box you can do what you please with it including reproduce the design. unless of course this guy makes everyone sign legal documents saying other wise.

and beside it's like i said i can literally make a random design that he might have an exact copy of i cant say he stole the designs as he may have designed it himself and as i dont have the design copyrighted just as he doesnt i cant say a thing

 

[mast240 10+ year member]

Selling a single item is not the same as selling the rights to produce the item, you should have learned about copyright laws and whatnot in high school.

yea but I highly doubt that anyone actually has an actual copyright on each one of their box designs

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

yea but I highly doubt that anyone actually has an actual copyright on each one of their box designs

exactly what i just said lol

 

[bubbagumper6 5,000+ posts]

this is were u have your legal loop holes though. i can buy a dvd a burn a copy and give it to someone else, but i cannot sell the copy. if you own the box you can do what you please with it including reproduce the design. unless of course this guy makes everyone sign legal documents saying other wise.
and beside it's like i said i can literally make a random design that he might have an exact copy of i cant say he stole the designs as he may have designed it himself and as i dont have the design copyrighted just as he doesnt i cant say a thing

No you cannot, I'm not sure who told you that but they're a liar and an idiot. Have you never actually read the warnings they put in there? Copying for your own personal use is a legal grey area but distributing those copies is most certainly illegal.

 

[Moble Enclosurs 10+ year member]

so basically your telling me u know how to design a box for every car to be optimal. which im referencing that this guy came to you asking about responses on a particular design of which you so said designed yourself.
hmmm i can say that im 100% sure that you could not design a box that would have a flat response in my car the first time.

i ask questions when i design boxes here and there from other installers like when i have never work on a particular car. but even still i cant stay "hey ive done this in the same car and it will put up xxx.xx number with this certain equipment" as every single car is different.

most designs are trial by error to acheive the best desired result and not one person can argue me on this situation.

you can get butt hurt all u want cuz this guy used this design that you "created" i can make some random design and it might happen to match yours maybe its just coincidence but even if he did just copy the design who cares its not stealing he prolly got the design from another customers box and just copied it which isnt stealing as the first customer already paid for it so u now do not own that design "u sold it"

id be willing to trust quite a few of these guys on here if i needed to as none of them claim to have such high grasp of the knowledge that they say their designs are perfect. they make you a design that they think with work well in which many cases it does. nobody knows everything.

yes, with obvious smoothing factors, but no it was not my design I was referring to either. Make sure you read it correctly next time. As far as flat response the first time, its possible of course, but flatline full passband at +/-3db......with the way the vehicle resonances peak and null, you will need crossover control for some of it as the resonances are not controlled by pure physics but different resonances and modes can be determined from positioning for the flattEST possible response. Even sealed designs, you would be surprised if you do not smooth the octave bands, and create a perfectly sealed environment, that even that is not flat all the time. It changes every vehicle, and If you like, I will post up a thread proving it by building a design for my vehicle and showing the calculated vs actual responses from that. I will do that no problem if you want to question my work. But, I do encourage the questioning. People are afraid of what they do not know now days, which is understandable.....were human. So, with all do respect, yes I can, the best possible that your vehicle will allow.

I have to note also, though, without knowing the actual dampening factors of your vehicle, by knowing the materials and where they are located and such, and seat placement and so on and so on, there will always be a deviation unless I get all that information, which I dont know anyone that is well known for designing has time for that in a single design without getting pretty backed up or charging an arm and a leg.

Hope this helps.

 

[bubbagumper6 5,000+ posts]

yes, with obvious smoothing factors, but no it was not my design I was referring to either. Make sure you read it correctly next time. As far as flat response the first time, its possible of course, but flatline full passband at +/-3db......with the way the vehicle resonances peak and null, you will need crossover control for some of it as the resonances are not controlled by pure physics but different resonances and modes can be determined from positioning for the flattEST possible response. Even sealed designs, you would be surprised if you do not smooth the octave bands, and create a perfectly sealed environment, that even that is not flat all the time. It changes every vehicle, and If you like, I will post up a thread proving it by building a design for my vehicle and showing the calculated vs actual responses from that. I will do that no problem if you want to question my work. But, I do encourage the questioning. People are afraid of what they do not know now days, which is understandable.....were human. So, with all do respect, yes I can, the best possible that your vehicle will allow.
I have to note also, though, without knowing the actual dampening factors of your vehicle, by knowing the materials and where they are located and such, and seat placement and so on and so on, there will always be a deviation unless I get all that information, which I dont know anyone that is well known for designing has time for that in a single design without getting pretty backed up or charging an arm and a leg.

Hope this helps.

I'd like that simply because I wouldn't mind reading it (and maybe learning something).

 

[Moble Enclosurs 10+ year member]

so basically your telling me u know how to design a box for every car to be optimal. which im referencing that this guy came to you asking about responses on a particular design of which you so said designed yourself.
hmmm i can say that im 100% sure that you could not design a box that would have a flat response in my car the first time.

i ask questions when i design boxes here and there from other installers like when i have never work on a particular car. but even still i cant stay "hey ive done this in the same car and it will put up xxx.xx number with this certain equipment" as every single car is different.

most designs are trial by error to acheive the best desired result and not one person can argue me on this situation.

you can get butt hurt all u want cuz this guy used this design that you "created" i can make some random design and it might happen to match yours maybe its just coincidence but even if he did just copy the design who cares its not stealing he prolly got the design from another customers box and just copied it which isnt stealing as the first customer already paid for it so u now do not own that design "u sold it"

id be willing to trust quite a few of these guys on here if i needed to as none of them claim to have such high grasp of the knowledge that they say their designs are perfect. they make you a design that they think with work well in which many cases it does. nobody knows everything.

This is completely different than figuring for full response also to be noted. Figuring for exact spl numbers is not something anyone can do without knowing what the vehicle does before (usually by actually being there), or calculating for the EXACT positioning of the mic, subs, cabin area, resonances, modes, reflection points, diffraction values, absorption coefficients, etc. It goes on and on. Without any of those variables, the exact number is not known in any design until you guys do your tuning thing, which is perfectly fine, escpecially if you are going into a comp.it is part of the procedure that makes a big difference. This is the thin line between calculated and actual that people aruge quite a bit, and it is not something that can be argued as it is true to a point, but not fully. I can design you a response that will sound like the one calculated and give everything about the design you need for proper operation, but unless I am physically there (which is why I mainly do local designs), you not having those factors available makes the design ALWAYS less accurate than perfect. Saying a design is optimal does not being perfect. It means as good as it can be with the limitations given. No one can design a perfect box, but we can get pretty darn close.

 

[Moble Enclosurs 10+ year member]

I'd like that simply because I wouldn't mind reading it (and maybe learning something).

Sure! I can start working on something this weekend. it may take a few weeks to complete, as I have kids and another job, and this one actually keeps me pretty busy with the exception of having to stay on here for hours trying to explain myself. but ok. Ill take that challenge in a heartbeat. Let meput something together in the next few weeks. I will build a simple box, and test my calculations with real world response. No deviations, no filters, nothing else but raw response. Now, you have to keep in mind, that everyones equipment will vary this response as well, such as subsonic filters, voltage differences, phase differences9if you put it where its not calculated for), and other electronic factors that cause limitations, like crossover frequencies and such, but within the passband will be the focus and concern of accuracy for this project. Im excited to do this, might take a bit, but be prepared.

 

[Moble Enclosurs 10+ year member]

so basically your telling me u know how to design a box for every car to be optimal. which im referencing that this guy came to you asking about responses on a particular design of which you so said designed yourself.
hmmm i can say that im 100% sure that you could not design a box that would have a flat response in my car the first time.

i ask questions when i design boxes here and there from other installers like when i have never work on a particular car. but even still i cant stay "hey ive done this in the same car and it will put up xxx.xx number with this certain equipment" as every single car is different.

most designs are trial by error to acheive the best desired result and not one person can argue me on this situation.

you can get butt hurt all u want cuz this guy used this design that you "created" i can make some random design and it might happen to match yours maybe its just coincidence but even if he did just copy the design who cares its not stealing he prolly got the design from another customers box and just copied it which isnt stealing as the first customer already paid for it so u now do not own that design "u sold it"

id be willing to trust quite a few of these guys on here if i needed to as none of them claim to have such high grasp of the knowledge that they say their designs are perfect. they make you a design that they think with work well in which many cases it does. nobody knows everything.

This is inarguable and I completely agree with this statement. No one claims to be perfect. If you feel I am that way, or claim to be, then you are mistaken, but you do notice my confidence? There is a reason for that. And right, no one is perfect. No one should claim to be. But we can do some amazing things we can. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

yes, with obvious smoothing factors, but no it was not my design I was referring to either. Make sure you read it correctly next time. As far as flat response the first time, its possible of course, but flatline full passband at +/-3db......with the way the vehicle resonances peak and null, you will need crossover control for some of it as the resonances are not controlled by pure physics but different resonances and modes can be determined from positioning for the flattEST possible response. Even sealed designs, you would be surprised if you do not smooth the octave bands, and create a perfectly sealed environment, that even that is not flat all the time. It changes every vehicle, and If you like, I will post up a thread proving it by building a design for my vehicle and showing the calculated vs actual responses from that. I will do that no problem if you want to question my work. But, I do encourage the questioning. People are afraid of what they do not know now days, which is understandable.....were human. So, with all do respect, yes I can, the best possible that your vehicle will allow.
I have to note also, though, without knowing the actual dampening factors of your vehicle, by knowing the materials and where they are located and such, and seat placement and so on and so on, there will always be a deviation unless I get all that information, which I dont know anyone that is well known for designing has time for that in a single design without getting pretty backed up or charging an arm and a leg.

Hope this helps.

this was what i was mainly hitting on i could care less bout the design stealing. and im sure u can make a flat response in your vehicle as u have adequate testing to do so but i highly doubt that you could do the same in mine without having to have the car and do the same test. sometime doing something so small as adding a 10x10 sheet of deadener can throw off a whole design. which is why i say you can do it the first time remotely at least.

i have extensive testing in my car and my latest design has a slight peak at 58hz which is where the car peaks. i can work around this with a crossover but instead ill rebuild my box with a hair bit bigger port or a hair bit bigger volume and tweak it till i find what design worked best then i can go with a crossover.

but my system wasnt designed for flat response and my equipment wasnt either but with what i have so far i only get about a 2-3db difference from 29-75hz but this changes when my voltage picks up or drop or i open the door or turn on the mids and tweets i really hate trying to get a flat response as i like to have a low frequncy bump and a bump in the mid bass range 80-150hz

 

[winkychevelle 10+ year member]

This is inarguable and I completely agree with this statement. No one claims to be perfect. If you feel I am that way, or claim to be, then you are mistaken, but you do notice my confidence? There is a reason for that. And right, no one is perfect. No one should claim to be. But we can do some amazing things we can. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

confidence is a great thing but to much can come of as arrogance. one thing about forums is that if u come on too strong with not enough post most people will discredit you as you havent built a rep on the forum yet. youre gonna have to prove your knowledge to be taken seriously otherwise no one will deal with you

 

[audioholic 5,000+ posts]

IMO, Moble Enclosurs is being very patient, and professional, with his replies here. Lets respect that and keep this discussion on topic, and equally respectful. Thank you everyone.