Anybody notice Pioneer HU's LPF slope cant be turned off

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

Adam, the amps crossovers on my subchannel is preset which doesnt give me an option of setting it to pass or off to eliminate the 24db octave slope.
Otherwise i whould have a long time ago man.

Well thats a stupid amp. You could always use only your front outputs and go with an outboard crossover.

 

[jacka 10+ year member]

squeak thanks for your help. What whould you do if you were in my shoes ?
I have a 5 channel RF Power 1000 and have the stereo channels crossed over at 12db @ 100hz on the HU with the amp set to pass.

The sub mono channel is preset to 24db slope and I have the filter set to 80hz with the HU now set to 18db @ 200hz or i could go back down to 80hz but im not sure if it will cause any phase issues or what not.

Whould you use the HU and Amps crossovers for the stereo channels aswell as the sub channel or just use the HU ?

p.s. I have a CDT HD62 component set upfront off only 50 watts rms (100 rms actual probably ) and a JL 12w6v2 sealed in the trunk off 600 rms @ 2 ohm

sounds pretty good right now IMO. I'm also using my HU's HPF and amp set at pass, and sub amp's LPF and HU set at 200hz.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

squeak thanks for your help. What whould you do if you were in my shoes ?
I have a 5 channel RF Power 1000 and have the stereo channels crossed over at 12db @ 100hz on the HU with the amp set to pass.

The sub mono channel is preset to 24db slope and I have the filter set to 80hz with the HU now set to 18db @ 200hz or i could go back down to 80hz but im not sure if it will cause any phase issues or what not.

Whould you use the HU and Amps crossovers for the stereo channels aswell as the sub channel or just use the HU ?

Honestly, it's just something you are going to have to play around with and see which provides the best results. There's really no "rule of thumb" to work off of since everything is completely install/equipment/vehicle dependent. It's just something you're going to have to fiddle with until you find the best combination.

An advantage of using the amp's xover is that the frequency is "continuously variable"....meaning you can choose any frequency within the specified range. With the headunit's xover, you are stuck choosing between the limited number of frequencies the headunit manufacturer decided they would allow you to select from. And advantage of the headunit's xover is that you can control it from the driver's seat for easy and on-the-fly adjustment.

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

where in any of my posts does the word "GAY" show up? take it easy... if you have been around this forum enough you should know its just b.s.'n

you said "to much of deh butt secks??? look a lil red in tha pic bro."

now, honestly bro, am I to assume you were complimenting me because I nail mad *****es in the, well, you know? you know what u meant. stand by it.

and as for you kicking my ass, well, in one corner, we got a big italian guy from brooklyn. in the opposing corner, we have, well, who the hell knows? i may be a few months away from taking the bar exam, but that doesnt mean i forgot where i grew up, which is a lot diff than where u grew up. been a decade since someone got the best of me, but i'll just have to take ur word for it.

you wanna call a truce, thats fine by me, but cut that "dumb noobs cant even read" sh*t out. i'm on these boards to learn what i can, and when people help me, i thank them. we were all noobs at one pt.

i went off on u like i did because you were the biggest dick i have encountered on these boards. on the bodybuilding and powerlifting forums, everyone's gotta be so tough, and i find it refreshing when people are so much chiller here.

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

you said "to much of deh butt secks??? look a lil red in tha pic bro."
now, honestly bro, am I to assume you were complimenting me because I nail mad *****es in the, well, you know? you know what u meant. stand by it.

and as for you kicking my ass, well, in one corner, we got a big italian guy from brooklyn. in the opposing corner, we have, well, who the hell knows? i may be a few months away from taking the bar exam, but that doesnt mean i forgot where i grew up, which is a lot diff than where u grew up. been a decade since someone got the best of me, but i'll just have to take ur word for it.

Hey Frankie, I'm 6' 1" and about 260lbs and I wouldn't mess with ya.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Not that you'd give me a reason to anyway.

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

Hey Frankie, I'm 6' 1" and about 260lbs and I wouldn't mess with ya.//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif Not that you'd give me a reason to anyway.

i dont know why adam, but i really like u. ur a good dude, lol

 

[jdelk69 10+ year member]

I have a lonely little Pioneer DEH480MP. My amps are: Profile 1040 for components and Audiobahn A4002T for the Sub. I have the xovers set at full and am using the HU xovers. I found this to work for the sound effects, that my listening ears like to hear. I have the xover @ 80hz for LPF/HPF/SUB. Seems to work for me.

Joe

 

[suleman36 10+ year member]

OK, i went ahead and re arranged my install and replaced the RF 5 channel amp and went with the following.

JL 500/1 to my 12w6v2

PPI a600.2 to my CDT HD62 set

I am using the crossovers on the HU and set the 500/1 to off and the ppi a600.2 naturally doesnt have any x-overs.

All i can say is WOW //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif / Huge Differance in sound and my frontstage has never sounded better.

The sub fills in my low end and is just exactly what i wanted.

I have my crossovers on the 780 set to :

6db @ 100hz HPF

18db @ 80hz LPF

Finally satisfied with my system.

p.s. The 16 band EQ is amazing to have.

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

i feel the same way about the improvement it made when i turned the xover on the 500/1 to off, suddenly sounded a whole lot better (which is weird bc i not only didnt think anything was wrong with having the xover set at 80 Hz on the HU and the 500/1, i thought it sounded pretty good.

i am no x-over expert by any means, but im just wondering, why only go with a slope of -6 dB/octave? is there an explanation for why u went with the less steep slope, or did it just sound better?

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

i am especially curious since u went with the most steep slope the HU allowed when u crossed the subwoofer over (18 obviously).

 

[suleman36 10+ year member]

Totally dependant on the components you're using and how they are installed. Generalizing:

6db/oct: Best phase and amplitude response (Butterworth). Worst off axis performance and modulation distortion. 90 degree phase shift. Stresses drivers such as tweeters and delicate midranges, as 6db/oct isn't enough to limit excursion in many cases. Very sensitive to driver alignment, both in relation to each other and also the axis of the drivers themselves. Best results usually come with installs where the tweeter is very close to the mid, and careful attention to positioning is taken (kick panels, angled door).

12db/oct: 2nd best phase and amplitude response. Less sensitive to driver misalignment than 1st order crossovers. May still be too shallow for certain drivers. A natural crossover for a car, gives a good response. Good for installs that are slightly off axis, and drivers that are decently close to one another, more forgiving than a 1st order crossover in that respect.

18db/oct: Good amplitude and phase response. The steeper slope can minimize modulation distortion and it improves off axis performance. Less sensitive to driver misalignment. Good for off axis installs like a stock door panel, and the tweeter being further from the mid.

24db/oct: Can produce a very flat amplitude and phase response. Steep slope equals least modulation distortion. 360 degree phase shift, so the drivers are "in phase", but the time alignment is off. Least sensitive to driver misalignment. These are typically used in off axis installs and give good results if you want to locate the tweeter far from the mid.

Phase alignment or time alignment does essentially the same task. You're simply trying to align the drivers acoustically to provide a coherent output to your ears. Best done with experimentation, as even with equations the end result can and will be affected by the environment, especially talking about a car with multiple reflections to distract the originating signal.

 

[suleman36 10+ year member]

Subs I tend to cross over more steeply, and use midbass or mids to roll off to the subs.

with mids and tweeters, the shallower the slopes, typically the smoother the transitions and better the SQ turns out, but the downside is that the speakers get hellishly more picky about beaming and directionality, their power handling drops significantly, and there are a few other issues. A steeper 12-18dB slope for mids/tweeters tends to make the install a lot easier, lets you throw more power at the speakers, and really works out nearly as well.

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

I have my crossovers on the 780 set to :

6db @ 100hz HPF

18db @ 80hz LPF

why stagger ur crossover pts? (thats what this technique is called, right? 'staggering'?)

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

ok suleman, my 7800 brother, i just set my LPF and HPF as u did,

LPF ( 80Hz on the HU, 18dB)

HPF (100Hz on the HU, 6dB)

it sounds phenomenal. i got a 6 hr criminal procedure exam in 26 hours (law school bullsh*t) and the last thing i should be doing is adjusting my crossover pts and slopes, but whatever.

i didnt have time to give it a thorough and critical listen to, but when i went to get coffee i heard 2 songs and both sounded phenomenal.

'stinkfist' by TOOL sounded much less 'muddy,' and responded better to equalization. this was especially true for the end/peak of the song, which sounded infinitely 'cleaner.'

'this calling' by All That Remains also sounded much cleaner. i also (under the subwoofer 3 screen) changed the phase of the sub to the setting which made it sound better, bc it was out of phase.

i must admit that despite the serious progress i have made in my understanding of various aspects of car audio, i have never read very much on the concept of 'phase.' i dont understand it yet, gimme like 20-40 min.

after that, i swear i wont do anymore car audio research/tuning/analyzing until after my final on tuesday!!