Anybody notice Pioneer HU's LPF slope cant be turned off

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

How whould I be able to use a 24db slope like what is offered on my amp. It is not adjustable on my amp.

As I explained...if you only want to use the amplifier's xover (which is apparently 24db/oct), then you set the HU xover as high as it will go which will effectively push it ("it" being the HU's xover) out of the range that "matters".

I understand the crossover freq part but what about the HU 18db slope and then the amps 24db slope ?
That adds up to -42db slope @ 80hz

Kinda sorta.

It ultimately depends on the type of filter, how they designate the "crossover point", etc etc.

But, for an easy example......lets say that everything is the same except for the slope and they both use the common designation of the crossover point as -3db. If you set them both to 80hz....then yes you would yield a -42db/oct slope and at 80hz the signal would be -6db down rather than -3db.

 

[jacka 10+ year member]

like squeak said you set the HU's crossover point high enough so that it won't really affect the sound at all, i.e. 200hz. slope won't matter much when up at 200 hz if its already being attentuated by the amp. hopefully that made some sense

nevermind me, just look above.

 

[suleman36 10+ year member]

That defeats the purpose of using a 24db octave slope @ 80hz and then setting your HPF at 12db @ 100hz for a good roll off.

My point is that this can affect your system rolloff etc... Just wish i could use one or the other and call it 24db @ 80 hz or 18db @ 80hz etc.......

Not 42db @ 80hz !

Thanks alot for your insight guys.

 

[Trey803 5,000+ posts]

Shoulda bought the p880

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

to much of deh butt secks??? look a lil red in tha pic bro. every pioneer has it unless you are using something from the 80's . so stfu noob and dont get mad at me because you cant read.

ur right, in the scheme of things, i am a noob, but u must know ur wrong if u have to resort to calling me gay.

you keep telling us to turn it to 'full,' download an adobe version of the manual, hit search, type the word 'full.' you get zero results. thats the kind of argument that backs u into a corner where you have no choice but to call me gay.

i look a little red, you're right, it was after my first powerlifting meet. i put up 390 and only weighed in at 204.

i hope one day i will be knowledgable enough so that when people ask a f*ckin question, i can do my best to help them. thats what we're here for.

you're just an internet tough guy. if this was face to face, you would sh*t your f*ckin pants.

i mean no disrespect to anyone else who reads this, and apologize for drawing attention away from the topic.

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

squeak, what do u think of the production value on the new TOOL album? i think that Aenema, for its time, was a very well produced album, as was Lateralus. Despite loving each song on 10,000 Days (saw 'em 2 nights in a row in october), the album in my opinion seems to be mixed poorly in comparison to Lateralus.

I may be a relative noob to car audio, but i play 4 instruments, i have taught drum lessons since i was 19, and have spent some time in recording studios with various bands.

maybe i'm holding them up too high, being that they're TOOL and everything.

 

[frankiebones 10+ year member]

You can certainly use them both. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using both the headunit's & amplifier's crossovers at the same time. In fact, many people intentionally use both to obtain the specific sound they are needing.
What it comes down to is the resulting sound. That is all that's important.

In the case of the Pioneer and it's ability or lack thereof to set the LPF to "pass"....it doesn't really matter. IIRC the lowpass frequency can be set as high as 200hz. In which case, the headunit's xover point is high enough out of the subwoofer's bandwidth that it won't really affect the sound much if at all. For example, if your amplifier has 24db/oct slopes and you have the amplifier's lowpass xover set to, say, 70hz....the signal going to be attenuated by -48db at 210hz. So having the xover set to 200hz is only going to be affecting a signal that's already being attenuated by over -40db. Not a big deal. So, if you only want to use the amp's xover....just set the HU's xover to 200hz. Badda-bing badda-boom.

But, as I said....you certainly can use them both in conjunction with each other (i.e. having them both set to 80hz). The resulting slope will be affected....but not inherently in a negative way. Like I said...many people do this intentionally. The only thing that's important is what obtains the best sound.

If using them both sounds the best (and given some of the previous postings...it possibly is?) then you are good to go and have nothing to worry about.

i followed everything u said, barely. however, sound is everything. i turned the x-over on my JL 500/1 to pass and then i was left with just the HU's HPF and LPF both set at 80.

I dont know about SQ, but often times when the bass guitar would transition from frequencies above the x-over pt to frequencies below (or vice versa), the transition was anything but smooth. it sounds very much the same, except those walking bass lines (think "all mixed up" by 311) that jump between sub to mid are smooth. then i lowered the levels on my JL 500/1 amp while playing that 311 song a few times, and was able to match the volume levels so that the as it transitioned, it stayed the same volume.

it really sounds like its coming from one driver. whether i have a good ear or i just got lucky, im gonna see how some other sh*t sounds with my current settings, and definitely use a sharpie marker to mark the spots before i do too much additional tuning.

 

[BASSMEKANIK 10+ year member]

where in any of my posts does the word "GAY" show up? take it easy... if you have been around this forum enough you should know its just b.s.'n

 

[BASSMEKANIK 10+ year member]

and no i wouldnt shit my pants . i would just kick your ***... //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

That defeats the purpose of using a 24db octave slope @ 80hz and then setting your HPF at 12db @ 100hz for a good roll off.
My point is that this can affect your system rolloff etc... Just wish i could use one or the other and call it 24db @ 80 hz or 18db @ 80hz etc.......

I think you're either not getting it, or fixating yourself on something so miniscule that it won't really be noticeable audibly.

By setting your LPF on the headunit as high as it will go (in this case, 200hz), the signal is going to be so attenuated already that it's not going to cause any substantial change in the sonic characteristics of the system.

There is no need to fret about the HU's inability to bypass the LPF. You can, in effect, "only use" the amplifier's xover if you wish by simply setting the LPF on the HU to 200hz.

My other point was simply due to the misconception that it was "incorrect" or unacceptable to use them both in conjunction with each other.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

then i lowered the levels on my JL 500/1 amp while playing that 311 song a few times, and was able to match the volume levels so that the as it transitioned, it stayed the same volume.

That typically is where most run into problems....they don't properly level match the substage with the midbass.

 

[squeak9798 5,000+ posts]

squeak, what do u think of the production value on the new TOOL album? i think that Aenema, for its time, was a very well produced album, as was Lateralus. Despite loving each song on 10,000 Days (saw 'em 2 nights in a row in october), the album in my opinion seems to be mixed poorly in comparison to Lateralus.

I'm no music engineer nor audiophile golden ear myself......but there are some songs in 10K Days that I think are decent from a recording standpoint. For example, "Right in Two" seems to do pretty well. Other tracks on the album do leave a little to be desired recording wise. I think I would have to agree with your generalization that overall, in comparison to previous albums it wasn't mastered quite aswell.

 

[suleman36 10+ year member]

squeak thanks for your help. What whould you do if you were in my shoes ?

I have a 5 channel RF Power 1000 and have the stereo channels crossed over at 12db @ 100hz on the HU with the amp set to pass.

The sub mono channel is preset to 24db slope and I have the filter set to 80hz with the HU now set to 18db @ 200hz or i could go back down to 80hz but im not sure if it will cause any phase issues or what not.

Whould you use the HU and Amps crossovers for the stereo channels aswell as the sub channel or just use the HU ?

p.s. I have a CDT HD62 component set upfront off only 50 watts rms (100 rms actual probably ) and a JL 12w6v2 sealed in the trunk off 600 rms @ 2 ohm

 

[adam71 5,000+ posts]

I cant believe they put so many useless features on a HU and put hpf on every preout but dont give you the option to set the LPF to pass. This is a big problem considering most amps have built in crossovers already.
I guess im going to sell my 780 and find me a better HU with this feature.

Frankie, me and you have a similar setup.

I have a jl 12w6v2 and a 500/1

Who says you have to use the amplifier's crossover.?? In fact, why would you use the amps crossover over your deck's crossover.?? THat makes no sense what so ever. You have total control at the deck by using the deck's internal crossover. THink about that before you jump to conclusions.

 

[suleman36 10+ year member]

Adam, the amps crossovers on my subchannel is preset which doesnt give me an option of setting it to pass or off to eliminate the 24db octave slope.

Otherwise i whould have a long time ago man.