Another Reason For Rear Fill...

[AAAAAAA 10+ year member]

drfunnepantz

^ This guy with his rearfill wired backassward is hillarious. He has no clue.

For people saying they like their rear occupants to hear the music and lyrics, obviously you havent been in any front stage vehicules to say that. Most front stage only guys usually run lots of power to their component set.

 

[AcidicDreams 10+ year member]

I have not read this thread. However, I am sure that I am the first to say this:
Rear fill is a waste of money.

That is all.

Agreed

 

[mlstrass 5,000+ posts]

I'll reiterate what "I" have said before. A lot of the younger guys want INSANE bass and some sound to go along with it. I don't feel those guys will spend the $$$ to do a proper front stage.

For them another option is a decent 4 channel amp and 4 coax's to keep up with the monster subs. It HAS to be better than the guys who are running only stock speakers with the killer sub set up.

I've never heard a killer front stage and have never posted negatively about it as I can't comment on what I've never heard.

M5 how far up north are you as I'm near the IL/WI border??

MY set up with rear fill gets VERY loud and plays clean and the sound still appears to come from the front, so I'm happy with it. Maybe it's a poor man's killer front stage //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

Only part of the "arguement" I don't buy is throwing comp winning SQ cars out as examples. How many of us have the time/money to duplicate that? Most are looking for decent sound and a good front stage OR a set up with rear fill can provide that. I did NOT say the most accurate or whatever, but it can sound good to the listener and that's usually the objective....

Anyone near Chicago who wants to hear a good rear fill set up give me a holler, and NO blindfolds involved //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[CBFryman2 5,000+ posts]

even if it was made in 85 or 73 or whatever, albums have been digitally remastered

you guys are funny.

Your car stereo is stereophonic. Two channels.

99% of alblums out today are stereophonic or monophonic. Your average CD player cant even read or process 4 channel files.

FM radio cant even carry a 4 channel signal on a single frequincy band. 2 channels tops.

Try agian.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

lol this thread is funny as hell. in any sq car that runs rear fill its tuned in such away to make the listening area sound larger and it is tuned, processed and even seen wings planted on head rests to block out any direct sound from rear fill. if you can tell you have rear fill it pulls your sound stage back toward the center of the car. also the reason why people might say left front and right rear play the same signal is just due to distance from the speakers and probably the opposite side rear disperses sound better from your seating position...also as far as pin pointing subs in back if you can pin point it you have it turned up too loud and haven't played with the phase.. in my truck my sub is x over at 78 Hz at 72 db per octave it pulls my sound stage back from in front of my bumper to about the front 1/4 of my hood and the only way you can tell where it is, is if i turn its gain up and its beating you in the back. some people will also say they can pin point it out because its above 50 Hz when its on by itself LOL in that regard you can go right on down the line and point out all of your speakers if they were playing by itself but have everything else going at the same time on a properly installed set up and by the miracle of god it will sound right when playing together........

 

[///M5 10+ year member]

M5 how far up north are you as I'm near the IL/WI border??

Minneapolis. I'd rather have a ride in your station wagon than listen to your car though. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/yumyum.gif.0556df42231b304b9c995aefd13928a8.gif If you get my way or vice versa we should do both and I'd be glad to give you a demo of my front stage at the same time. Afterwards we can discuss it over a beer or two.

 

[BlackMaxima 10+ year member]

Next thing you know you'll have newbs advocating $300 RCA's, saying that too little power will blow your speakers, and that MAX power is an important spec.

who wants to buy my RCA's for $300??

 

[kublkmax 10+ year member]

Ok 7 pages of dribble. There have been some funny points on here. I think the first one I found funny was the dude that brought up comp cars and how in 97 they had rearfill. That those who were only running front did not compete. That was some funny stuff. And some thought that they could hear surround sound via fm source. Now that is why you should not drink and drive. If you like your rear fill that is cool.... Just don't try to sell that bs to the rest of us.

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

i had no rear fill in 97 i took 4th at sbn and 2nd at the mid west nationals and that car previously took 2nd in both iasca and usac world finals 3 years prior to that (it sat in a barn for that long lol)

only guy i ever recall using rearfill was mike mineo (spell check) and only reason i got to listen to his car was due to the fact he needed a pic of another camaro/firebird with a 350 tpi to show he switched his alt around. (he had motorized flaps on his head rest to block the sound) you couldnt point out the rear fill AT ALL either (he always finished 2nd to mark eldridge and retired after he and eldridge were beat by a pt cruiser named the grim reaper) . a proper front stage will imo (and many others) a natural rear fill in the car.

 

[goodstuff 10+ year member]

If I turn my head sideways when i'm sitting in the drivers seat I can tell that there are speakers in the back but if I keep my head straight forward it sounds like it's all coming from the front... I have a car not a truck I don't think I could do what I do in a truck...

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

BINGO!!! We have a winner. I had to laugh at the poster who claims that autos have more reflections than a home listening room. I'd give anything for non parallel walls such as a car has. We won't even get into standing waves, wavelengths and corner loading. We talk about accurately reproducing the original event infront of us yet we have subs in the trunk??? I bet many of you can actually sense the locations of your subs if they're crossed over at 80hz. Sub bass frequencies are known to add a fullness to the sound along with spaciousness. All this coming from the rear. Go figure....//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/biggrin.gif.d71a5d36fcbab170f2364c9f2e3946cb.gif

First off cars do have more reflections. Last I checked, most listening rooms are filled with soft materials to absorb sound waves, in addition all drivers are placed on axis. A cars interior is hard plastic and glass, with most drivers placed off axis.

Secondly, I'll adress the subs from the back issue. Do you understand how ears localize sound? I don't think you do, so I'll go over it for you. Humans determine position aurally by phase/amplitude difference in both ears...if the wavelength is too long to fit in the car then we can't determine where the sound is coming from because the air will compress/rarify equally on both sides of our head, which means that both ears will hear the exact same thing...this happens usually below about 100Hz in a closed mid-sized sedan. This is why you can't "cornerload" in a car, you already have cabin gain in subbass frequencies, and it's all your getting. In a larger vehicle you'll get a higher cutoff frequency before the sounds localize. In a car, getting the correct amount of airspace upfront for a sub and stopping things from rattling, again, localizing the sound, is hard. Therefore using the way the human ears detect sound to our advantage is paramount. It's the same reason active setups can employ midbasses in the doors, midranges in the kicks and only have the tweets up high, and yet have still have ALL frequencies appear to come from eye level, despite only having frequencies from 1500hz and up or so even originating above your knees. Learning what works and what doesn't is the trick, and due to how humans hear sound, no amount of attenuation is going to help a full range rear fill succeed. By the time you do enough prcocessing to make it acceptable, you've gained nothing from doing it, especially the "echo" effect people like to think it adds. (cancellations and echos arent' same thing guys, sorry)

 

[audiolife 5,000+ posts]

If I turn my head sideways when i'm sitting in the drivers seat I can tell that there are speakers in the back but if I keep my head straight forward it sounds like it's all coming from the front... I have a car not a truck I don't think I could do what I do in a truck...

rear fill if you even turn your head to hear it is still destroying your sound stage space its pulling it bach and bunching it up closer to the center. up front sound sounds like its on the front of the hood no restriction to the auto's width

 

[headless 10+ year member]

LOL @ MBrock listening to surround on FM radio

Rear fill is total nonsense unless you have some real processing to push it. Amusingly, my old *** touch screen eclipse from 1991 had a DSP that computed echos for rear channels and only sent heavily crossed over and processed signals to the rear speakers. This worked great...sometimes. Other times it sounded like complete shit. Sending stereo sound mirroring your fronts to your rears is just plain bad shit. It makes no logical sense to do so. I've listened to the dark side of the moon in my car and some sounds DO sound like they are coming from way off to the sides and behind you, but it's got nothing to do with having speakers behind me (all that's behind me is my sub and the sounds played from 'behind' don't come into that freq range)

 

[headless 10+ year member]

ok...first off let me start off by saying that I don't get the no rear fill guys...maybe that's because I have not heard a system with only fronts...BUT... my set up is very different from most peoples...I have my 4x6 speakers in the front doors and another set of the same exact speakers that are in the trunk facing fowards...i.e towards the windshield....the speakers in the trunk are wired so that the right is on the left and left is right...what this does for me is (most of the time....depends on the recording) is make it so that the instruments sound like they are correctly placed on the soundstage.... it doesn't sound like you are sitting on the left side of the car, it sounds like you are sitting in the middle....but you still get stereo ( i.e if the sound pans back and forth quickly) from the fronts

I can't see, no matter how good the speakers are, or how they are aimed, how it would make it seem like you are sitting in the middle of the soundstage when you have speakers that are not equal distances to each other when you sit on either side of the car and not in the middle...I can see where your coming from when talking about how music is recorded with no rear fill in the studio but a car is not the same environment as a studio (try as we might, lol) hope that makes sense because it's tough to explain without pictures and or diagrams (which I'm too busy/lazy to take)

This post was so ****ing awesome, i had to quote it. LMFAO, you ****ing SWITCHED YOUR LEFT AND RIGHT CHANNELS?!?! but ONLY for the rear?!?!

I'm in tears over here. You need to learn about time alignment imo and for the love of god fix your system

 

[T3mpest 10+ year member]

This post was so ****ing awesome, i had to quote it. LMFAO, you ****ing SWITCHED YOUR LEFT AND RIGHT CHANNELS?!?! but ONLY for the rear?!?!I'm in tears over here. You need to learn about time alignment imo and for the love of god fix your system

at least he understands the complexities of the automotive environment, even if he took a non-sensical way to "fix" them.

While it is almost impossible to get in the center of the speakers, SQ cars do their best. This is why kickpanel locations are preferred over door panels, especially doors with high speaker locations. The kickpanel provides gets the speakers as far from the listener to the sides as they can, and the 2 distances are as close as equal as possible. When choosing mounting locations you always want to maximize path lengths, but mimimize path length differences.