And so it begins.

[Ape 10+ year member]

Hey everyone, long time listener first time caller.

I finally got signed up on these boards so now I wont just be reading everything. //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif Buuut im a n00b in the car audio world. Now that I have some cash coming in, its time to get a small amount of advice (I have been researching dont worry)

First off, I have a 93 aerostar... but it used to belong to the cable company and its gutted out and empty. Behind the 2 front seats it is just flat ground. My goal is to build a custom box, up against the back doors, and build a nice bench going along the side wall.

Secondly. Im not going to be competeing or anything, and my music tends to not focus on extreme bass and what not.. Im just looking for a balenced system.

Now this is what you guru's can rip apart and comment on. The only thing I have now is a head unit.

Head Unit: A small problem here, This christmas I got a head unit, its the cheapest sony xplod model, the s2000. At the time I didnt care, it just ment that I could listen to cds. Now im reading that the head unit is quite important. I really dont want to upradge, will I be ok without all the bells and whistles of an expensive unit? I know my EQ settings are limited.

Front Stage: (Thats what you call the front speakers right?) anyway. Right now the stock speakers are 5 1/4" mounted on top of the dash. I was thinking of replacing them with 51/4" Component speakers, and doing some custom work to put the tweeter up beside the doors, for better direction. Will I be able to get away with having the woofers in the dash? I also intend on Amping these front speakers, thats a good idea to balence out the sub, correct? now how much power should I be getting for these front speakers? I know to look for RMS rating and not the peak, so what will really improve the stock junkers, 100w RMS?

Rear Speakers: Right now these are non existant, there are stock rear door mounts there but I am going to build a custom box, so the size can be anything. My biggeset question here... Do I need to amp the rear speakers? I hear that with good speakers it wont make much a difference to the ear. Also whats the best size to throw back there? 6 1/2" ? And without an amp should I get Co-Axials or more Components?

Sub(s): This is what I am the most stuck about. For a balenced, casual, good sounding system, how many subs do I need?? Should I have 1 10"? 2 10's? 1 12"? I am lost when it comes to the sub sounds. Also what is a good power range?

Amp: What I had in mind, if I only needed 1 sub to acheive good sound, and IF I only needed to amp the front 2 speakers, than I could get a 4 channel amp, and bridge the rear for the sub. Correct?

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Thanks im looking to get quite active here. (once I get some more knowledge)

- Ape

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[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

First off, I have a 93 aerostar... but it used to belong to the cable company and its gutted out and empty. Behind the 2 front seats it is just flat ground. My goal is to build a custom box, up against the back doors, and build a nice bench going along the side wall.

Woot, another cargo van...I've got plenty of experience working in and around these (I drive a '94 E-150 half ton myself).

Head Unit: A small problem here, This christmas I got a head unit, its the cheapest sony xplod model, the s2000. At the time I didnt care, it just ment that I could listen to cds. Now im reading that the head unit is quite important. I really dont want to upradge, will I be ok without all the bells and whistles of an expensive unit?

Personally, I would upgrade to a lower-end Alpine unit...just for reliability's sake.

Front Stage: (Thats what you call the front speakers right?) anyway. Right now the stock speakers are 5 1/4" mounted on top of the dash. I was thinking of replacing them with 51/4" Component speakers, and doing some custom work to put the tweeter up beside the doors, for better direction. Will I be able to get away with having the woofers in the dash? I also intend on Amping these front speakers, thats a good idea to balence out the sub, correct? now how much power should I be getting for these front speakers? I know to look for RMS rating and not the peak, so what will really improve the stock junkers, 100w RMS?

Amping your front speakers is a very good idea...you shouldn't need more than 75-100w.

Rear Speakers: Right now these are non existant, there are stock rear door mounts there but I am going to build a custom box, so the size can be anything. My biggeset question here... Do I need to amp the rear speakers? I hear that with good speakers it wont make much a difference to the ear. Also whats the best size to throw back there? 6 1/2" ? And without an amp should I get Co-Axials or more Components?

Ditch rear speakers in a cargo van. There's absolutely no need.

Sub(s): This is what I am the most stuck about. For a balenced, casual, good sounding system, how many subs do I need?? Should I have 1 10"? 2 10's? 1 12"? I am lost when it comes to the sub sounds. Also what is a good power range?

Depends on your liking. I've been running a single 12" ported, and it gets plenty loud, but in the coming months I might upgrade to a 15" or two. It all comes down to personal preference. We're lucky in this regard that we don't have to worry about silly things like enclosure size like almost everyone else //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

Amp: What I had in mind, if I only needed 1 sub to acheive good sound, and IF I only needed to amp the front 2 speakers, than I could get a 4 channel amp, and bridge the rear for the sub. Correct?

You could bridge the rears to the sub, but generally that's limiting in how much power you can send to the sub. If you want a kW or more, you're going to have to go with two amps.

 

[jujumantb 10+ year member]

Couple of suggestions...

- Your front mids *should* be aimed, I'm assuming they are currently firing into the windshied. I've seen this pulled off a few times though, I would go for it and if it sounds bad, then go about fabricating some kick pods, kick panels, or angled baffle type things

- 100watts is a good number for fronts, I run a 130x2 amp, but they probably see less than 100 and get louder than is necessary.

- As long as your deck has a preout (it should), it will be fine.

- You definitely dont need to externally amp the rears, your deck will power them fine, the goal for most people who run rears in a "real" system is to provide a little ambience effect, but not pull the soundstage backward. They shouldnt be seeing more than 20 watts anyways to accomplish this.

- For a sub, I've found a decent 10" sealed to provide plenty of bass for a flat tuned system. A 12" sealed will be similar, but I've found them to overexagerrate the lowend if untuned, atleast in my full sized car with the cabin gain. So basically if you want flat, look for a 10" or 12" that takes around/atleast 300watts RMS and cost around $100. Though that seems pretty general, that is usually a good indicator that it is a decent sub. My personal recommendation would be an Alpine Type R, great sub.

- For an amp, your suggestion of a 4 channel amp would be perfect for your setup. Just make sure your sub is either SVC 4ohm or DVC 2 ohm so you can bridge it to the amp @ 4ohm and have no overheating problems. 4 channel amps tend to get really expensive with anything over like 60-75wattsx4, but a 75x4 would be fine for a clean and loud system.

 

[Ape 10+ year member]

Wow, some good answers so far. Thanks a bunch. And ya Jack, Worry about enclosure size, hahaha. non existant.

I will look into the Alpine Type R, With a ported box it gets louder, and sealed its a cleaner sound?

So if I was using a bridged amp, and wasnt giving my Sub much power I should use a ported box?

I will experiment with the front speakers too.

----------- Edit:

The Type-R's do look nice, I usually read good things about them, so if I had 1 12" it would probably want more power than I could give it with a bridged 4 chan Amp. Alsoo if this is the case I Think my head unit only has 1 pre-out, so I would need to uprgade to run more amps?

 

[req 5,000+ posts]

ok. contrairy to popular belief - i will post my ideas.

-head unit

although what you have is fine. like jack said. for reliabilities sake. those sony decks arent called Xplod for nothing //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif ... otherwise. you should be fine.

splitting a single preout with a Y jack to your sub and component amp is not a problem - most amps now adays usually have a 'rca output' to daisy chain amps to the same signal. so dont worry about that at all. you could also use a Line Output Converter to source the signal from your speaker wires on the back of the deack instead of the RCA preout. that would work as well.

-fontstage\rearstage

frontstage components = good idea - look in the speaker section of the forums, theres TONS of "what speaker for $150 threads" and lots of good deals in the classifieds.

rearstage = not really nessicary. if you absolutly WANT, get a pair of CHEAP coax's that fit whatever speakers origionally go there (6x9 prolly) and run them off the head unit. but again, they will only get a little power, and if you turn the volume up high enough on the deck, they will distort and ruin everything //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/tongue.gif.6130eb82179565f6db8d26d6001dcd24.gif

now you said you had 5.25's in the dash - and if these are anything like my 1994 cavalier, they are on the extreme left and right facing at a *SLIGHT* angle toward the lisner, but facing mostly upward. thats not very good placement IMO. the best bet, is to see if you can (like stated) mount them in the bottom corners of the car (the kicks) with fiberglass, or put them in the doors. the tweets generally should be mounted around 10" from the midwoofer, aimed a few inches in front of the *OPPOSITE* listners face.

amplification = teh own, almost NESSICARY for good sound at moderate volumes. i cant stand listning to speakers of a HU\stock amp anymore //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/bawling.gif.6287aa5d1d447c8af063fc9466e822ef.gif

-amplifier(s)

now, you said a 4 channel and bridge the 3\4 to the sub? you would really need to get one hell of a 4 channel amp to get over 200w when bridged. and there is alot of space in a cargovan to fill with sound. if it were me, id get a nice little 2 channel amp that does like 75x2@4 ohms, and then another little 2 channel amp that can do like 400@1@4ohms(bridged)... maybe like these;

65x2@4ohm - $70

http://www.thezeb.com/p-Profile-AP400-2-Channel-Amplifier-109691.htm

300x1@4ohm - $100

http://www.thezeb.com/p-Profile-AP600-2-Channel-Amplifier-109690.htm

now, you can get those amps ALOT CHEAPER by using thezeb's price match (look through http://www.millionbuy.com for better prices on those amps) and you can save $15~30 one each amp - maybe even get a bigger amp for the subs too.

IMO - two two channel amps- one that will do 2xXX@4ohms for the fronts, and one that will do 1xXX@4ohms for the sub would be your best bet amplifier wise.

-Substage

now, one 10" speaker - for me, did NOT cut it. i had a resonant engineering 10" sub. i admit, i like bass more than the average Joe, but it didnt hit the extremly low notes (anything under 38hz basically) and it didnt sound how i wanted it. now dont get me wrong, you can make a box that will do that, but a 12 or 15 will have a much eaiser time with lower power levels doing this.

Atlas 15

http://www.ascendantaudio.com/Atlas%2015.htm

but you can always spring for the atlas 12 if you dont feel comfertable with a 15. eaither way, they will sound great in a sealed box if you dont want to go ported.

that sub will work GREAT off a few hundred watts (at 4ohm) and you can put it in eaither a sealed box OR a ported box. you said you wanted to make a little bench? why not make a nice fat sealed box, and use it double as a bench? you got the room for it! you can make a bench that doubles as your amp rack, sub box, and wiring cover all in one fell swoop.

i would fiberglass the atlas to the bench to make it look cool though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

-Wiring

take a look into walmart for some cheap deals on wiring kits. also http://www.knukonceptz.com has some good stuff... as well as http://www.weldingsupply.com. wire = wire really. i woulnt freak about it being stinger or boss wire, because internally, its still copper strands twisted together with a rubber coating. so walmart wiring should do fine... and 4 guage kit should cost like $30, and an 8 guage kit should cost $20. be wary about the 4 guage kits though, sometimes they give you barely enought 4 guage to get to the area you need it at.

 

[Ape 10+ year member]

Thats some great info, Im very suprised about splitting the signal for the amps. And thanks for the examples. I dont see a reason not to go with 2 amps now. (since I can split the signal).

I have so many more ideas, and I like that bench thought //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif

 

[Ape 10+ year member]

ok, 1 15" or 2 10" subs? with the 15 using more power, does having more than one effect much?

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

One 15" or two 10" subs?

No comparison there - get the 15".

The 15" will react to power in much the same way as any other size driver - doubling cone area or power, ideally, will increase total SPL by 3dB. In theory.

 

[Raven 10+ year member]

The HU is important, but in the end, I'd say a signal is a signal, and the frequency response between a cheap *** sony and a nice Alpine would be negegible. My HUs are basically used as nothing but a source (no eq-ing) but I got a used Alpine (first Alpine I ever owned) so I wouldn't have to worry about it dying randomly on me.

Fronts: What is your listening preference? It affects EVERYTHING. With rap/hip hop, you hardly need to replace the stock front speakers. With metal, you're looking at high end comps and equally good midbass drivers. For most stuff, good comps will suffice. I suggues Oz Vector 5.25" components. Talk to Tplaya07. (Is he still around?) They'd be a perfect starting point, cheap and clean sound.

Sub: Well, since space is quite literally not an issue is such a large vehicle, you have an incredible number of options. Can't tell you what you'll want in this department, but odds are you're grow dissatisfied with an SPL sub before an SQ sub. Porting, bandpass, folded horn, just about anything is possible.

Amps: Output is output. At equal power output, you can't really hear the difference between Pyramid and Zapco. Look for something durable, and maybe a few bells and whistles. 50-100 wrms will be perfect. Most normal people find 30 wrms to get too loud for them, so you don't need a huge amount of power for the front. The sub amp is a different matter. It's box dependant, and sub dependant. You could get away with 150wrms and a 10, or be like me with dual 12"s and a sh*tload of excess power to them.

Get us a drawing or something of your idea.

 

[redswingline 10+ year member]

One 15" or two 10" subs?
No comparison there - get the 15".

The 15" will react to power in much the same way as any other size driver - doubling cone area or power, ideally, will increase total SPL by 3dB. In theory.[/QUOT

good info, however you did say that you did not listen to alot of heavy bass music.

15's are great for rap and low frequency hitting bass songs, but if you listen to rock or blues or country...etc tens are better. For example if you were likstening to a song with double bass beat, a 15 would not be able to catch the second beat where as tens will catch it and at the right timing.

 

[Ape 10+ year member]

Ahh ok,

one 15 = Lower sound, hard hitting

two 10s = Quicker bass, better timing.

 

[sumone 10+ year member]

^ not really. one 15 = moves more air than a 10. I heard a setup with like 4 8s that I could've sworn sounded like it was gonna be a pair of 12s or a 15 'til he opened the trunk. ever since then, driver size really doesn't affect me (but I still fall subject to the bigger = better cliche //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif)