adulbich

[72Impala 10+ year member]

Both are loud. No sense in swapping between the two. For his goals it's silly to try to put 40k on 2 subs no matter what the subs are - for anything other than raw SPL that's not going to work.
And no one that's loud uses Brazilian? You should know just as well as anyone else that statement is false. You don't see a ton at finals because most people are wired under 1 ohm. Senchez used Brazilian amps (I know he didn't do great this year, but on 4 subs in an enclosure designed for 6 subs a 62 isn't bad). I agree that the T series aren't as good as the new ones, but the HD10k like I have are great amps and plenty capable of doing the power a Korean does for half the price or less.

Some are loud. Senchez did a 62 radical x. That wasn't great. He did a 157 headrest lol. It's a b pillar wall man. The hd10k will not clamp anywhere close to 10kw. Everyone running them tells themselves that to justify buying them.

There is a reason the big cats run Korean amps. Because they are quality and not welding machines.

I'm saying he needs 4 x 15" subs. Wardens only because he refuses to not use neo subs. He has said that. I think he would be fine with 4 x 15" team series subs from a good brand and a pair of S&I 9k or zenon 10k boards

 

[wew lad 5,000+ posts]

There is a reason the big cats run Korean amps. Because they are quality and not welding machines.

While I may not disagree with the majority of what you said, I'd like to see this specific information formally substantiated before it's considered a legitimate trait of Brazilian topologies.

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

If they don't do rated power, why do the 2 ohm 10ks clamp 6k after rising to 5 ohms?

They are rated at 12kW at 1-2 ohm depending on the version and 8k at 2-4 at 13.8. The rating on the amp itself is the 12v rating. Just because the T series did not do rated power does not mean that the HD series with a better power supply and other upgrades is in the same boat.

If he wants to stick with neo it may be a good idea to downsize to 4 of something like the n2's he had. I know where 2 n2 18s are for sale //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif But personally I'd leave the neo behind for a daily build that's only concerned with lows and moving air.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

If you add another 20k you can kiss those coils goodbye.
Also, AH means next to nothing on a battery. Cranking power or burst power is what you need to look at. 5 small batteries on a 20k is actually not as great as you think. I have 4 northstar g24/34 batteries and 500a worth of alternator power on my 10k.

My suggestion if you want lows and hairtricks is to ditch the Z's and go with more cone area. If you have no desire to compete why limit yourself to 2 subs? You can fit 6 15s in that vehicle and could hairtrick and kill lows on very little power.

The coils take my 20k all day on a clean signal. I have no doubt each sub could take one.

I've only got two subs because I wanted Z's and could only find two motors in my price range

Fitting 6 15's takes precision woodwork and knowledge to use glue.
Have you seen this boys door pods?!?! Far from what i just described!

Sent from my draconis using Tapatalk

Yeah, gotcha. You'd be surprised by how my doors sound

I been telling him to buy wardens. Buy you some wardens. You won't hear a difference and they are available all day. And tune to 33hz or so this time. Also ditch the Brazilian power. Please. Guess what all the really loud people use???? Not Brazilian amps brah. Sorry.
Sounddrive;

Jeremy Kough used xs8k's and wardens to do his 60, matter of fact wardens won a ton of classes at finals this year. Almost half of meca honestly. All the DB Revolution vehicles had V1 wardens in them, I used them, my buddy used a V2 warden and won.

You don't need Z's other than to say you have them

To buy Wardens and a Korean amp, I would first have to sell my Z's and 20k. This thread was started because of my Z for sale thread. Apparently, everyone was upset that I didn't include the coil details in my listing, so I took the ad down. I've put way too much money into these subs, and will never get that return. If you can find someone to buy my gear, I'm willing to switch.

If they don't do rated power, why do the 2 ohm 10ks clamp 6k after rising to 5 ohms?
They are rated at 12kW at 1-2 ohm depending on the version and 8k at 2-4 at 13.8. The rating on the amp itself is the 12v rating. Just because the T series did not do rated power does not mean that the HD series with a better power supply and other upgrades is in the same boat.

If he wants to stick with neo it may be a good idea to downsize to 4 of something like the n2's he had. I know where 2 n2 18s are for sale //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/smile.gif.1ebc41e1811405b213edfc4622c41e27.gif But personally I'd leave the neo behind for a daily build that's only concerned with lows and moving air.

They can't do rated, because the internal components can't handle the current. They're voltage amps, not current.

Koreans can make rated if you wire low and rise to a safe impedance.

I had N3's, and you're right, I probably should have stayed with them.

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

You must have some crazy impedance rise then or that amp's power supply is absolutely terrible, because I can make my subs stinky with my 10k on frequencies where the impedance dips. My coils are a little bit smaller because it's the tight gap Z but it shouldn't be a huge difference.

And the statement about Brazilian amps makes no sense - maybe for your amp it makes sense but not brazilians in general. The fact remains that my 10k does rated power. The T series isn't a stable Brazilian amp compared to the newer amps like the HD10k/DSP series and new amps from other manufacturers.

 

[hispls 5,000+ posts]

I'm not going for numbers, I wanted hairtricks and loud lows

If you need to play 20hz tones you probably need more cone area. I'd suggest getting the proper softparts in those subs then building a box to manufacturer specs and see how that goes for you. It just might be that they have their recommendations for a reason?

I wanted low tuning with a large box and lots of port area.

How's that working out for you?

I didn't take voltage with a sine wave while the amp was unloaded. I just checked max voltage and max amperage on a couple songs. I've got the subwoofer level on my Alpine headunit at 7 out of 15. I listen at volume 23 or 24 out of 35. Gain on the amp is about 1/3. Any higher on any of those settings makes the clipping light flicker, unless I lower something else. A few songs at soft clip makes the coils heat up. A playlist-worth of songs at soft clip, and there is a hint of glue smell. I don't ever run anything too hard or abuse anything. Input voltage is steady between 13.6v and 14.0v. I need to get my alternator externally regulated. Even with the amp off, the max I charge at is 14.0v cold.

You must test with subs connected. It would be interesting to see what that "clipping" light is actually doing because if you were getting even half rated power from that amp your coils would be melting in about 3 minutes. The difference between 14V and 14.8V is inconsequential. Charging at 14.8 would be optimum, but again that's not going to save the day for you.

I have five group 49 batteries currently. 80 ah each, so 400 ah total.

That's barely half enough to attempt to run a legit 20K. Guys I know who run two 10K's or 4 5K's are working with 16 batteries... it takes power to make power.

My battery bank now isn't a problem.

Find someone who knows what they're doing to co-sign on that statement.

After the 16v batteries went bad, I would just switch to caps. Caps would be easy to charge at 18v. I would just need more capacitors per bank than standard 12v banks.

Good luck with that. That 1dB you'll gain from dropping all that dough into double the cost batteries or cap bank will not be audible.

I thought about buying another 20k. They can be had much cheaper now.

Certainly a far cheaper option than trying to go 16V.... though you'll need a lot of batteries if you hope to see anything close to rated power out of your amps without blowing them up.

Ok, I'll probably get another 370 amp alternator and have them externally regulated. Later in life after these batteries are done, I'll get caps and run a 16v setup with some Korean r Stetsom amps.

Because the 20K you have isn't enough power and your pair of 3" coil woofers need more..... I can assure you that from where you're sitting just swapping amps isn't going to "fix" things.... though a second alternator would be a good idea to help with your woefully inadequate battery bank.

I have sent pics to a few members on here. Posting pics will obviously get me banned.

Not nudes... that would get V& assuming they're high school girls. Just pics of them with you. Make sure you get pics of the hands so we can make sure they're not just trannys.

How'd you know???

Legion told me.

My guess is that you haven't gained your amp correctly, aren't feeding it properly, or your box is a colossal failure. You should be smelling coil really quickly even at 10K and from what I've seen 20KW pair of 18" B-pillar walls do 160 and up.

Do measure voltage on that amp. Sine wave and with subs connected. Look into doubling your electrical if you plan to run any sort of 20KW, then consider rebuilding your box. Your thread was a train wreck so I didn't catch anything beyond the double layer (which is inadequate) wood. I'd really like to see some metering done to see frequency response and output so we can predict how bad this really is. That data may reveal something you miscalculated or missed.

 

[72Impala 10+ year member]

You must have some crazy impedance rise then or that amp's power supply is absolutely terrible, because I can make my subs stinky with my 10k on frequencies where the impedance dips. My coils are a little bit smaller because it's the tight gap Z but it shouldn't be a huge difference.
And the statement about Brazilian amps makes no sense - maybe for your amp it makes sense but not brazilians in general. The fact remains that my 10k does rated power. The T series isn't a stable Brazilian amp compared to the newer amps like the HD10k/DSP series and new amps from other manufacturers.

Take a video of your amp clamping 10kw. Not 6kw at 5 ohm, but 10kw at whatever ohm load. Otherwise it's a 6kw 4 ohm amp.

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

You must have some crazy impedance rise then or that amp's power supply is absolutely terrible, because I can make my subs stinky with my 10k on frequencies where the impedance dips. My coils are a little bit smaller because it's the tight gap Z but it shouldn't be a huge difference.
And the statement about Brazilian amps makes no sense - maybe for your amp it makes sense but not brazilians in general. The fact remains that my 10k does rated power. The T series isn't a stable Brazilian amp compared to the newer amps like the HD10k/DSP series and new amps from other manufacturers.

I bet you can't clamp 10k out of it. I don't mean 5k at 2 ohm, I mean legitimate 10k+

10k is rated, right?

If you need to play 20hz tones you probably need more cone area. I'd suggest getting the proper softparts in those subs then building a box to manufacturer specs and see how that goes for you. It just might be that they have their recommendations for a reason?

Manufacturer specs are for a different application, but I can try that. So you disagree with my logic about having a larger box with more port area and lower tuning than recommended? For my goals, those are typical box characteristics.

How's that working out for you?

Well

You must test with subs connected. It would be interesting to see what that "clipping" light is actually doing because if you were getting even half rated power from that amp your coils would be melting in about 3 minutes. The difference between 14V and 14.8V is inconsequential. Charging at 14.8 would be optimum, but again that's not going to save the day for you.

I always tested it with subs connected, never unloaded voltage.

That's barely half enough to attempt to run a legit 20K. Guys I know who run two 10K's or 4 5K's are working with 16 batteries... it takes power to make power.

I'm getting no voltage drop though. Yes, my volt meter may not be getting the fast dips. I get that.

Find someone who knows what they're doing to co-sign on that statement.

No voltage issues as of yet, besides not charging optimally

Good luck with that. That 1dB you'll gain from dropping all that dough into double the cost batteries or cap bank will not be audible.

Like I said, my plans aren't set in stone. Still got a lot of time to decide.

By Christmas, I'l have $1k more saved up to fund my re-build.

Certainly a far cheaper option than trying to go 16V.... though you'll need a lot of batteries if you hope to see anything close to rated power out of your amps without blowing them up.

I can get more batteries, yes. I also talked to somebody about getting another alternator and bracket too

Because the 20K you have isn't enough power and your pair of 3" coil woofers need more..... I can assure you that from where you're sitting just swapping amps isn't going to "fix" things.... though a second alternator would be a good idea to help with your woefully inadequate battery bank.

Considering the 20k doesn't actually do 20k, yes. It's a voltage amp, and won't do rated. There may be high clamp numbers, like what 72impala got out of his, but the amp wouldn't be happy with that kind of current all day

Not nudes... that would get V& assuming they're high school girls. Just pics of them with you. Make sure you get pics of the hands so we can make sure they're not just trannys.

Of course not. I don't forward nudes.

Pics of hands? I know some guys with girly bitch-looking hands. What do hands have to do with anything?

Legion told me.

//content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/confused.gif.e820e0216602db4765798ac39d28caa9.gif

My guess is that you haven't gained your amp correctly, aren't feeding it properly, or your box is a colossal failure. You should be smelling coil really quickly even at 10K and from what I've seen 20KW pair of 18" B-pillar walls do 160 and up.

I may change up ratios of settings and see how that affects things. Box isn't to spec, but it's solid and geared towards my goals.

I've never smelled coil. I have smelled excess glue when first playing the N3's and Z's, which both had Tantric HDD coils. Never blown a sub to know what coil smells like. I thought I was smelling coil, but Adam informed me that the smell was just extra glue, after he smelled it

Do measure voltage on that amp. Sine wave and with subs connected. Look into doubling your electrical if you plan to run any sort of 20KW, then consider rebuilding your box. Your thread was a train wreck so I didn't catch anything beyond the double layer (which is inadequate) wood. I'd really like to see some metering done to see frequency response and output so we can predict how bad this really is. That data may reveal something you miscalculated or missed.

Will do, and electrical upgrades are in my future.

Yes, that was an awful thread. It's at least double or triple layered all around with 2x4's and 1" threaded pipe bracing all sides in at least one place if not more. It may not be pretty, but it's solid.

If someone would gift me $35, I'll go meter. Otherwise, I'm saving my pennies up until Black Friday and Christmas.

Take a video of your amp clamping 10kw. Not 6kw at 5 ohm, but 10kw at whatever ohm load. Otherwise it's a 6kw 4 ohm amp.

Yes, that's what I'm saying

 

[fatboytyler]

Hasn't boomsday clamped several Brazilian amps and came to the conclusions they all do **** near rated? Regardless, even if its 6k at 4 ohms its going to be way more efficient than a 6k Korean at 4 ohm and a hell of a lot cheaper. May not sound better, but will require significantly less money in electrical. They might not last as long, but as long as you aren't abusing them with too high or too low voltage they should last as long as a Korean.

Correct me if I'm wrong here please. I'm still planning on going Brazilian once I get **** money.

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

Clamping 10k from it is completely irrelevant. You won't clamp a Korean 10k amp doing 10k unless you wire it low. You can't wire Brazilian amps low. And wiring low is inefficient anyway and not something I will do except for shows.

You don't have to be angry about Brazilian amps doing more power more cheaply just because it's a different type of technology. If you don't like them, don't use them. But don't spread false information about them just because you don't like them.

Don't drop them below 1 ohm and don't have them at 15v while clipped and they're as reliable as any other amp.

And I'm really not sure what you mean by "voltage amps". It's a full bridge amp. Any amp uses both current and voltage. There is no such thing as a "voltage amp". The power output is limited by the components used in that specific amp, not by the full bridge technology.

 

[SounDrive Pro Seller]

Remember with large boxes that port area will be a bit larger but port area per cube will be less. If you've got a larger box but are still using 16 inches of port per cube it could be too much for your goals

Also a solid box doesn't mean it's a good box. You can take a crap design and make it solid.

 

[Massive spl]

Idk at world finals I heard some of the 180+db guys talking about when switching out 100k power of Brazilian power to like 48k Korean power they gained on meter.

 

[los33 10+ year member]

Hasn't boomsday clamped several Brazilian amps and came to the conclusions they all do **** near rated? Regardless, even if its 6k at 4 ohms its going to be way more efficient than a 6k Korean at 4 ohm and a hell of a lot cheaper. May not sound better, but will require significantly less money in electrical. They might not last as long, but as long as you aren't abusing them with too high or too low voltage they should last as long as a Korean.
Correct me if I'm wrong here please. I'm still planning on going Brazilian once I get **** money.

Clamping 10k from it is completely irrelevant. You won't clamp a Korean 10k amp doing 10k unless you wire it low. You can't wire Brazilian amps low. And wiring low is inefficient anyway and not something I will do except for shows.
You don't have to be angry about Brazilian amps doing more power more cheaply just because it's a different type of technology. If you don't like them, don't use them. But don't spread false information about them just because you don't like them.

Don't drop them below 1 ohm and don't have them at 15v while clipped and they're as reliable as any other amp.

And I'm really not sure what you mean by "voltage amps". It's a full bridge amp. Any amp uses both current and voltage. There is no such thing as a "voltage amp". The power output is limited by the components used in that specific amp, not by the full bridge technology.

Brazilian amps will do rated, but they are known to blow doing rated.

As for a Korean or anything other then Brazilian you can get near sometimes over rated on rated impedance.

The box design and sub specs plays a role on box rise.

Brazilian amps were not made for what we use them for so its not ideal to use them for SPL.

On non Brazilian it maybe less efficient to wire below impedance, but if you have the electrical and know when to back off you will be fine daily and can use the amp till its near end of life expected usage.

Sent from my draconis using Tapatalk

 

[adulbrich 5,000+ posts]

Hasn't boomsday clamped several Brazilian amps and came to the conclusions they all do **** near rated? Regardless, even if its 6k at 4 ohms its going to be way more efficient than a 6k Korean at 4 ohm and a hell of a lot cheaper. May not sound better, but will require significantly less money in electrical. They might not last as long, but as long as you aren't abusing them with too high or too low voltage they should last as long as a Korean.
Correct me if I'm wrong here please. I'm still planning on going Brazilian once I get **** money.

Don't. Go big Korean instead.

Clamping 10k from it is completely irrelevant. You won't clamp a Korean 10k amp doing 10k unless you wire it low. You can't wire Brazilian amps low. And wiring low is inefficient anyway and not something I will do except for shows.
You don't have to be angry about Brazilian amps doing more power more cheaply just because it's a different type of technology. If you don't like them, don't use them. But don't spread false information about them just because you don't like them.

Don't drop them below 1 ohm and don't have them at 15v while clipped and they're as reliable as any other amp.

And I'm really not sure what you mean by "voltage amps". It's a full bridge amp. Any amp uses both current and voltage. There is no such thing as a "voltage amp". The power output is limited by the components used in that specific amp, not by the full bridge technology.

So you're saying it does rated, but you can't clamp 10k out of it. It's rated for 10k, right?

Idk at world finals I heard some of the 180+db guys talking about when switching out 100k power of Brazilian power to like 48k Korean power they gained on meter.

Koreans have better damping, which makes them louder even if they don't make as much power

 

[Massive spl]

The only way I'd ever run Brazilian is if it was giving to me for free and I had no other amps.