Active vs. Passive: An attempt by me to explain

[JJDH 10+ year member]

premier f90bt can be active, right?

 

[nismos14 5,000+ posts]

premier f90bt can be active, right?

nope.

 

[ejschultz 10+ year member]

Pioneer Premier p800prs can also go active. Only the p880prs was mentioned. I haven't gone active yet, but it's something I've been thinking about. Only thing is (I know it defeats the purpose to an extent) I'd like to keep my rears. My car is rather large and I do like having a rear fill.

 

[Sarthos 10+ year member]

Stupid question I suppose, but when going active how much power can you put to the tweeters and the mids? Since they need separate channels I know you can't put the max RMS to each channel can you? If I have 6.5" Type Rs with 110 RMS, would I put 55 to the mids and 55 to the tweets or something else?

 

[JimJ 5,000+ posts]

but when going active how much power can you put to the tweeters and the mids?

As much as you'd like, under the mechanical and thermal ratings of the drivers...

 

[Sarthos 10+ year member]

How can you find that out? Its not something simple like half their combined power each? I only know the Kicker components had a pair where each part was 100 RMS so half power each.

 

[ejschultz 10+ year member]

Stupid question I suppose, but when going active how much power can you put to the tweeters and the mids? Since they need separate channels I know you can't put the max RMS to each channel can you? If I have 6.5" Type Rs with 110 RMS, would I put 55 to the mids and 55 to the tweets or something else?

i don't know much about the type r components, but i'm assuming they're 4 ohm. being 4 ohm and according to this thread, both the tweeter and the woofer would each be 4 ohm. the crossover divides the frequency so if you're putting 110 watts rms into them, both the tweeter and the woofer would be getting 110 watts rms. the woofers are going to be getting 110 watts of their frequency range determined by the crossover and likewise with the tweeter. in that case i'd assume you can put 110 rms into both the woofer and the tweeter as long as you have your active crossover set properly. if you lower the high pass for the tweeter, you're going to be lowering the power handling capabilities of it. if it's going to be set at the same frequency, you can give it the 110 watts rms, but this would defeat the purpose of going active. by changing the crossover points and changing the levels and time alignment of the seperate components, you can tune the speakers to better, hopefully perfectly build the sound stage of your car. going active isn't easy and it takes time, knowledge, and a good ear.

if anyone can add/correct/or just say it better, please do.

 

[Sarthos 10+ year member]

That makes sense. Of course that also requires twice the power to put out the same sound. Dang.

Or, now that I think about it, if I were using a 2 channel amp which does 2x100 @ 4 ohms to the speakers or 2x200 @ 2 ohms couldn't I run the speakers together in parallel (or is it a series, I can't remember) so they would present a 2 ohm load on the channel and do the same with the tweeters so my amp would put out 200 watts to the pair of speakers and 200 to the pair of tweeters off the same amp? Sounds like a lot of extra power and wear on the amp though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

 

[ejschultz 10+ year member]

That makes sense. Of course that also requires twice the power to put out the same sound. Dang.
Or, now that I think about it, if I were using a 2 channel amp which does 2x100 @ 4 ohms to the speakers or 2x200 @ 2 ohms couldn't I run the speakers together in parallel (or is it a series, I can't remember) so they would present a 2 ohm load on the channel and do the same with the tweeters so my amp would put out 200 watts to the pair of speakers and 200 to the pair of tweeters off the same amp? Sounds like a lot of extra power and wear on the amp though //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/frown.gif.a3531fa0534503350665a1e957861287.gif

sure you could run them in parallel to get a 2 ohm load at the amp, it's no more wear on the amp. 2 ohm is only making the amp run more efficiently. as far as crossovers go at that point, there's no way to implement an active crossover and hook up tweeters and woofers in parallel to get more power. you could at that point use the capacitor bass blocker filters for the tweeter, but as far as i've seen, there isn't any low pass or trebel blocker filters. these also, from what i've seen, handle 50 watts rms. also, these are considered passive, not active. the only way to go active would be use 2 2 channel amps or a 4 channel amp for the fronts along with the active crossovers (hu, external processor). i guess it does require more power than using the passive crossovers that come with the components. for example, with the passive crossovers (my focal 136v) the woofers is getting everything below 3500hz is getting at 70 watts rms. the crossover splits the power for the frequencies so the tweeter is getting everything above 3500hz at 70 watts rms. my rear speakers are 2 ohm so they're getting probably around 110 rms (alpine rates the amp at 70x4 @ 4 ohms and 100 x 4 @ 2 ohms, i figured it's probably a little higher than that for the 2 ohms, 140 rms would make sense but i've got it turned down as to not overpower my front stage, which it still does ). if i were to run my front as active, the rears would no longer get power from my 4 channel amp, and actually probably not even get used. because the focals are 4 ohm, the woofer and the tweeter are both 4 ohm. this means that each component, when hooked up to my amp would be pulling 70 watts rms, give or take a little for minor adjustments. before the fronts were only requiring 2 of the 4 channels of my amp for a total of 140 combined watts rms. now they're taking up the entire 4 channel for a total of 280 combined watts rms. technically it's twice the power to get the flexibility of an active setup. however, the tweeters are still getting 70 watts in their frequency range as are the woofers. it's not going to sound like twice the power, but with proper tuning, it will sound a lot better. i hope this is a good explanation as to how this works.

as before, if you can correct it or say it better, please do.

 

[Sarthos 10+ year member]

*brain explodes*

 

[magliteman 10+ year member]

Question......

Looking at going active. One amp I'm looking at (DLS A5 & A2) have high and low pass. Can I go active with these?

Aso looking at the Arc KS300.4 which has hi,low and full along with the KS500.1. Can I go active with this as well?

Starting my first DIY install and need to know before I go foreard.

Thanks

 

[James Bang 5,000+ posts]

No!

Read Dammit

 

[ejschultz 10+ year member]

Question......

Looking at going active. One amp I'm looking at (DLS A5 & A2) have high and low pass. Can I go active with these?

Aso looking at the Arc KS300.4 which has hi,low and full along with the KS500.1. Can I go active with this as well?

Starting my first DIY install and need to know before I go foreard.

Thanks

The DLS A5 is a 2+1 channel amp so not with that one. The A2 is a 2 channel amp so no with that one either. The Arc KS500.1 is a mono amp so no luck with that one either. Now, the KS 300.4 is a 4 channel, so yes, you could potentially do it with that one. You would either need 2 2 channel amps or a single 4 channel amp with an active capable head unit or sound processor.

 

[G.W.Kush]

The DLS A5 is a 2+1 channel amp so not with that one. The A2 is a 2 channel amp so no with that one either. The Arc KS500.1 is a mono amp so no luck with that one either. Now, the KS 300.4 is a 4 channel, so yes, you could potentially do it with that one. You would either need 2 2 channel amps or a single 4 channel amp with an active capable head unit or sound processor.

say in this case your tweeters where lower power than your mid-woofers would it technically be better to get two two chanel amps so you could adjust the gain correctly for each set (the tweets and the mid-woofs)?

 

[ejschultz 10+ year member]

say in this case your tweeters where lower power than your mid-woofers would it technically be better to get two two chanel amps so you could adjust the gain correctly for each set (the tweets and the mid-woofs)?

You could do that. It would be a slightly easier install to use a single 4 channel amp and then set the gains on the amp or levels on the hu lower than what you have for the mids. Tweeters are also usually a higher impedance; they won't pull as much power as the mids.