Acoustic Elegance AV15

[Xprime4 10+ year member]

I read the first 2 pages and its getting too technical. What are the cliffs? looks like a great sub.

what price? power intake? coil config? recommanded tuning? Would it be an upgrade over an 18inch Q?

 

[bumpin buick 5,000+ posts]

Price is $250

Rated at 1000wrms and take that and more no problem

D2 or S4

Not sure what recomended tuning is as it is made for HT. My box peaked at 37hz though but the subs played well down to about 25 and as high as 75

 

[Xprime4 10+ year member]

Price is $250 Rated at 1000wrms and take that and more no problem

D2 or S4

Not sure what recomended tuning is as it is made for HT. My box peaked at 37hz though but the subs played well down to about 25 and as high as 75

I'm looking for a sub with strong low-end and no 50hz upper roll-off.

They aren't a lot.. from what i've tried/heard

 

[bumpin buick 5,000+ posts]

if I had a box built lower im sure this would have gone down to 20hz no problem. Problem is my only testing was done in SPL boxes. Best sub ive heard in that box though.

Also AE may just be coming out with a nice SPL sub real soon too //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif

 

[Xprime4 10+ year member]

would it take 2k watt daily? 146 is freaking impressive for a single 15. what kind of power for that score?

 

[bumpin buick 5,000+ posts]

New ones are not made yet so I cant say anything about them but I think 2kwrms would be no problem.

THhe AV15 was seeing around 1.5-2kwrms for that score.

 

[Xprime4 10+ year member]

New ones are not made yet so I cant say anything about them but I think 2kwrms would be no problem.
THhe AV15 was seeing around 1.5-2kwrms for that score.

when are the new one out? what improvement? i'll look into that ... enventually looking for a new sub

 

[bumpin buick 5,000+ posts]

Maybe I shouldnt be talking about it as nothing is set in stone but John has considered making a SPL based sub, for us car audio enthusiests as all his subs were designed for HT use. The new sub would have a strong 3" coil and dual spider, along with a larger motor as well, Just a AV on steroids //content.invisioncic.com/y282845/emoticons/wink.gif.608e3ea05f1a9f98611af0861652f8fb.gif.

Nothin is set in stone though so please dont take my word on it, just something he has been considering.

 

[Papermaker85 5,000+ posts]

my AV h didn't take 1600 in 2.8 tuned to 31... 2k is sure to fold the cone...

 

[bumpin buick 5,000+ posts]

my AV h didn't take 1600 in 2.8 tuned to 31... 2k is sure to fold the cone...

Your a pretty sketching character if I may say so myself. Johnathan sent you a check to send his sub back, the fact you would just go out and blow it after you get his check is pretty lame man. Any chance of your credibility is lost on this site in my eyes.

For anyone is not familiar with this issue, John and him agreed to have the money exchanged for the sub and John would get the sub back cause it was only moving in one direction and didnt sound right. Well John held up his end but before John could get the sub back for me to look at and test papermaker went out of his way to throw more power at it and break the cone, btw I messed around with one of these cones. 2000wrms will not fold it. I have an even larger enclosure, almost twice the size of yours and only tuned six hz higher, the sub had no issue.

 

[Xprime4 10+ year member]

I see no problem with running a ht in my trunk. I guess it won't like quebec winter tough

 

[John_E_Janowitz 10+ year member]

my AV h didn't take 1600 in 2.8 tuned to 31... 2k is sure to fold the cone...

Over excursion is sure to fold the cone, not any particular power level. The only way to fold the cone is to drive the woofer past the limits of the surround, and to do so with a large amount of force. This is considered abuse any way you look at it. No I would not recommend 1600-2000W on the AV15 in a vented box, especially with no subsonic filter. You will be able to bend up the cone. There is a large difference in thermal and mechanical power handling. Thermally the coil will be fine with 2000W. Mechanically you can drive the woofer past it's limits if the system isn't carefully setup.

The cones are plenty strong enough to withstand force created with their rated power under appropriate operating conditions. I can flip a cone upside down and stand on it without it bending. They are quite strong. I cannot however guarantee a woofer that is used above and beyond the stated power limits and pushed beyond it's physical limits.

As BumpinBuick stated, I had considered doing an SPL woofer. We can go much thicker on the aluminum cones to drastically increase strength. We can do 2 thin layers of aluminum around a honeycomb core. Spiders we can do full nomex which is nearly indestructible and can be impregnated with a flexibilized epoxy to gain extreme amounts of stiffness, but not have the typical breakdown of phenolic resin. The addition of copper on the pole, the aluminum cone, and aluminum around the OD of the coil pulls heat away from the coil quickly and dissipates it very quickly. We can get to a point where we have extremely high thermal power handling. We just need to then build a driver that is basically physically indestructible as they will deal with continual abuse for SPL competition.

John

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

Stress..Strain...Ahh the real world of Mechanical Engineering that nobody thinks about...You simply don't say "Ok make this 3 times as thick therefore it has to be stronger and it'l be great for SPL"

Aluminum is the last material you want to use in a high pressure environment.

But when you start testing you'll figure that one out real quick. Aluminum is great for a soda can and many other uses..a cone just is not one of them, especially in that type of environment.

 

[John_E_Janowitz 10+ year member]

Aluminum is the last material you want to use in a high pressure environment.

Yes, the aluminum honeycomb used for airplanes and that NASA uses for many applications never sees any stress or strain i'm sure. Nor do the aluminum honeycomb propulsion mechanisms for silent submarines. I wonder why nobody told them they shouldn't use those materials?

It is not the aluminum itself that gives strength in a honeycomb. If you don't understand the concept of honeycomb with thin aluminum layers on each side you can click the following link to learn about it.

http://tinyurl.com/kj7fxy

As far as pure aluminum, there are many grades. There are many applications where woofers see MUCH more stress and strain than in an SPL application and aluminum can work just fine. A large tapped horn or even a large horn loaded subwoofer can see extreme amounts of pressure that far surpass what is ever seen in the SPL world. Angles on the cone can greatly change how much stress a cone can take. FEA analysis will allow you to know whether your cone is strong enough before ever making one.

A bad example are the alum dish cones that TC used for awhile. Snoopdan has the video of tearing one up. They had several things going against them. The fact that they become almost flat in the middle, the material they were made from, the fact that they were stamped, and a few other things.

John

 

[NDMstang65 10+ year member]

Yes, the aluminum honeycomb used for airplanes and that NASA uses for many applications never sees any stress or strain i'm sure. Nor do the aluminum honeycomb propulsion mechanisms for silent submarines. I wonder why nobody told them they shouldn't use those materials?
It is not the aluminum itself that gives strength in a honeycomb. If you don't understand the concept of honeycomb with thin aluminum layers on each side you can click the following link to learn about it.

http://tinyurl.com/kj7fxy

As far as pure aluminum, there are many grades. There are many applications where woofers see MUCH more stress and strain than in an SPL application and aluminum can work just fine. A large tapped horn or even a large horn loaded subwoofer can see extreme amounts of pressure that far surpass what is ever seen in the SPL world. Angles on the cone can greatly change how much stress a cone can take. FEA analysis will allow you to know whether your cone is strong enough before ever making one.

A bad example are the alum dish cones that TC used for awhile. Snoopdan has the video of tearing one up. They had several things going against them. The fact that they become almost flat in the middle, the material they were made from, the fact that they were stamped, and a few other things.

John

I'm talking for a speaker dude...i'm well aware of what aluminum does on aircraft (757 that I worked on stretched 2" nose to tail during the ascent that we gathered data from and we didn't fall out of the sky). I've done consulting work for Nasa and Boeing on noise control and aircraft panel analysis at Virginia Tech in the Mechanical Engineering department.

Throw an aluminum cone in an extreme vehicle using a 6th or 8th order series tuned bandpass or a super street vehicle and see what happens to it. There is a BIG reason why nobody uses it...best of luck if you are going to try to change that curve.

You could make it 1/8" thick and it would still bend it like a pop can. There is a reason why bridges bend..and there is a reason why aluminum truck beds are made to bend too. A cone on a speaker is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different then any of that.